Gandhi

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

Well I wanted to discuss Gandhi. Many people still see him as a great man but I think this is only because they don't know about his role in the partition of the Indian subcontinent.

Here a some quotes to give u a picture on how this "great man" really was.

Gandhi on private ownership:
" I will never be a participant in snatching away of the properties from their owners and you should know that I will use all my influence and authority against class war. If somebody wants to deprive you from your property you will find me standing shoulder to shoulder with you"
taken from Partition can it be undone?  by Lal Khan page 52.

Also this "great" pacifist was actually a big hypocrite on the question of the army. When a group of soldiers refused to fire on an anti-imperialist demonstration Gandhi condemned it and said:
"When a soldier refuses to fire then he is guilty of betraying his oath (!). I can never advise soldiers to defy the orders of officers because, if tomorrow I form a government, I will have to use the same soldiers and officers. If today I advise them for any defiance then tomorrow they can also refuse to obey my orders"
Ibid page 52.

As Trotsky put it in 1934:
"We must expose the treacheries and deceptions of Ghandism in front of the colonial peoples. The main aim of Ghandism is to water down the burning revolutionary fires amongst the people and to continue their exploitation for the petty interests of the national bourgeoisie"
Ibid page 50 and 51.


If any of you are interested in reading about how the Indian bourgeoisie let their interests lead to massmurder on people and the partition of India into India and Pakistan you should read: Partition can it be undone? By Lal Khan. It is availible from the wellread bookshop, just go to http://wellred.marxist.com/index.asp?s=partition&x=39&y=13

[marx_was_right]

Very interesting, if you don't mind i'll post this on che-lives too as there are a few people there with illusions in Gandhi :(

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

Yeh go ahead. Am still reading the book so I will properly get even worse stuff on him.

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

So have any of them said anything?:D

[turnoviseous]

Stalinists will be certainly against "the content" in the post you made, Teis. You know, you quoted Trotsky. :D

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

Yes true. We have to remember Stalin was great hero - he killed all those dirty revolutionaries:rolleyes:

[the_sociallist]

Can you be a great leader without killing, without being able to enforce your policies.

[Aky]

In theory, everyone has taken a human life, its just different ways of seing something. There is no official leader ever lived  who has not given direct orders to erase a human from the surface of Earth.

[JosephV]

What about Hitler?

[des-esseintes]

Originally posted by JosephV
What about Hitler?

What about him?

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

Anyone got any oppinins on Ghandi? You know the subject of this thread? :D

[Daymare17]

A year ago, a 16 year old girl was doused in gasoline and burned to death in her home in a village in Madhya Pradesh. She was an untouchable, i.e. one of the 160 million people who are at the bottom of India's caste system. The killer wanted to punish the girl because she had accused his son - who belongs to a high caste - for rape.

According to official legend the members of high castes have improved their karma so much through their previous lives that they have been reborn in a high caste. Incidentally, the high castes have historically consisted of priests, landowners and merchants. Today they also include lawyers, judges and entrepreneurs. No surprise that the bottom castes are made up of factory workers, poor peasants etc.

Gandhi argued that the caste system should be reformed ! He argued that "all castes shall be equally respected". And that Pariahs should be "moved up" and counted as... low-castes :mad:

His was a particularly devious evil, comparable to that of an old, child-abusing priest. I wince whenever I see his smiling face on a picture.

What is the attitude of the Indian workers to Gandhi?

[turnoviseous]

Its really sad to see this such of atrocities. Ghandi´s bourgeois revolution, which supposingly liberated India from British imperialism, achieved nothing fundamental at all. It hasn´t even abolished the caste system, while India is still dependent on imperialism more than ever before. The case that the control does not come from direct military pressures nowadays, but from dictatorial measures implemented through trade by imperialists, changes nothing fundamental at all.

I don´t know what´s the peculiar attitude of Indian workers to Ghandi, but I´ve met a Pakistan Marxist woman revolutionary, who told me a lot of things about Ghandi I didn´t know about him at all. She told me that he was responsible for killing of millions of workers and destroying the workers´ revolutionary movement against British imperialism, the movement which could destroy capitalist foundantions as well as British imperialist domination. It was necessary for him to control the movement and to split it, preventing socialist revolution.

[RapidHopeLoss]

Just to state.... Gandhi was against the Caste system.  And the only reason he may have helped hold down a marxist uprising is because it was violent.  Anything can be achieved through nonviolence if you work hard enough.

[Vespucci]

Anything can be achieved through nonviolence if you work hard enough.

That depends on whether your opponent is weak enough to be swayed by a crowd waving a few banners or some chanting of "we will overcome", doesn't it? Could the Second World War be solved by peaceful means? Could the Russian civil war be solved by peaceful means? Please give examples as to how you would have solved such problems through nonviolence.

Also, whoever heard of a revolution that was held down because it was violent? One opposes revolutions because one doesn't agree with what they're proposing or deposing, not because of the methods they use. If he'd agreed with Marxism, he would have tried to moderate the methods used, not suppressed the uprising out of hand.