!0 stpes to shake the Earth

[Miestermatt]

Protests cannot and will not achieve the goals of any unfied YFIS front. In order to even begin to think about starting to affect a change we need to do a few things.

1. We need to unify the scatered movements across the world.
2. Apply modern interuptations of Classical Marxist reading.
3. State our changed goals that would result form step two.  
4. Gain International recognition Through means of a World Wide March(thus showing that we are unfied) after new goals are published.
5. Get involved in the U.S legislative process.
6. Bring bills to committe to change laws.
7. Pass bills that survive committe through.
8. Get Bush to sign bills that survive step 7.
9. Pass bills throught the supreme court.
10. Repeat 6-9 till nessicary bills are passed.

Obvously it has flaws. But its a rough draft. What the bill goals will is to improve the conditions of the American Working class, and get support for the people who have been blindsided by the system.
After that an 11 srtep would be, Wait for capitalism collapse on itself.

[petrel]

7. Get Bush to sign ..? there is just one thing that mock "president" should sign. His immediate resignation. He LOST and STOLE the 2000 election, remember?

[djn]

Aside from numerous problems in your 10-step program, I think the fundamental problem is the class collaboration you are proposing. Your approach has been tried numerous times in the past and failed. If you want to adopt Marxism - any Marxism - you'll have to adopt a revolutionary stance, since Marxism successfully establishes that capitalism can only be destroyed through revolution. I suggest you read the Communist Manifesto. An excellent introduction to Marxism, from a modern perspective is available here.

Perhaps other members of this board can elaborate on the problems of reformism and class collaboration.

[mir]

Yeah, the problems with reformism are great and your ideas sound much like the other outcasts of the Marxist movement.  The point is, you can't make a revolution by running for congress.

[ScottMcR]

steps one to four seem sounds but five onwards are not steps that the average working class member of any Capitalist society would normally go for or believe in and as Marx himself said, it is only through the working class people themselves that things will change.

its good to see a new member putting forward thoughts and beliefs though. welcome to the forum Miestermatt :)

have you read much Marx? it can add a whole new slant to your beliefs :)

reformist / liberalist / centralist - - most of us have or had thought like that at some point but as you see the deeper the damage runs you realise at what level things need to be done.

comradely
scott

[Miestermatt]

Interstingly enough expermetaton and apdotion were my goal. I found this sit while reasaerhing a speech i have to give on the manfesto.  Which I have read. And also Captil. Both good boooks. But now that i think of it it does sound like trotshism, what i described.  Not that trotyism is bad its just a little well um dead.

[turnoviseous]

Hmm, how is trotskyism dead? Please explain :D

[Miestermatt]

Trotskism hasnt been able to compensate for the changing face of the 20th century.  THerefore it has fallen in favor of stlainism(boo).

[ScottMcR]

sorry miester, but i don't really see how you can come to that conclussion? trotskyism is as relevant today as when it was written if you have any belief or understanding of dialectics. can ya expand a bit on your reasoning and we can properly discuss this ;)

comradley
scott

[Miestermatt]

I went to Msn and looked up anti-marxist and found  a eassy were it stated the Troskism has fallen flat on its face anylzing the 20century world

[ScottMcR]

ok miester. if thats all you are bading your argument on then you should check out some other site :) there are many that can argue well against that and would be interesting for you to read i'm sure.
here are a couple
http://www.marxist.com/
http://www.newyouth.com/educateyourself.asp
http://www.socialist.net/

let me know how you get on

comradely
scott

[Miestermatt]

Trotskism is excellent system, much peferable to stalinism(which is what gives solicism a bad name) And What stalin did to Trotsky was just wrong.  But the fact is Trotism is far less preventlent among most soicist movements(unoffical), While offical Socist movemnts seem to have trotskism and stalinism at odds with an equal mix of both.  I on the other hand practice pure Marxism as stated in the Manifesto.  But what i ment tosay was as stalinism becomes more prevenlt in the soicalist soicty history seemms to repeat itself as the induhviduals(thats not a spelling error its my name for stupid people). who practice stlanism force trotiskism out.

[ScottMcR]

hey miester, i think anyone who study's Marxism must therefore have an understanding of dialectics, and in that way to say that you study pure Marxism is kind of a contradiction in terms. i don't believe there is such a thing as pure Marxism for the simple fact that it is based of expanding theories and should be adjusted to be relevant to it's frame of reference. therefore saying you are a trotskyist is simply like saying, yes i believe in Marxism and through that i understand that each step is relevant and forcefull, i would be bold enough to say i was a Grantist if the man wasn't so humble to refute the fact of the progress he himself has made in the Marxist theory.

so it kinda goes, Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky.... onwards and upwards till the new great teacher raises his head,.

comradely
scott

[mir]

Scott, just now after reading a few passages of Grant, I am convinced he is the leader of the "real" Marxists.

[ScottMcR]

i agree mir =) he is a great man, i also thing sewell and wood make an excellent front too =)
comradely
scott