Abortion

[JosephV]

Nobody actively looks for an abortion, so after the revolution we can sort things out ;)

That is nothing compared to what my partner feels who had to organically bring them into the world in a way which most women face, a very violent fashion

Well, she sholdn't have eaten that apple. :rolleyes:

[marx_was_right]

This thread is sponsore by Durex, remember safe sex prevents the need to abort

:cool:

[Volkov]

I don't really like the idea of abortion, as it is not necessary;  if they don't want the child, then they can just give the child up for adoption.  There are too many horny people these days.  I mean, if they are REALLY that horny, they could at least do their sick things in the form of masturbation.

[ScottMcR]

i dont think it's a sick thing volkov, and i believe that the idea of a woman being able to carry a child for nine months then just give it up is pretty unreasonable. a lot of things change through pregnancy and to think that is the answer is a little niave, sorry.
it is a very personal issue but i also believe that in a socialist world the need for abortion would be even less due to communal raising of children and the spread of the responsibility of parenthood. but like i already said, it is up to the woman and many many things can affest her choice so we ( as in men ) should not in anyway try to presume what she should do or make her choice any more difficult. free choice for all

comradely

scott

[Miestermatt]

How can we say that we are soicalists if we cannot simply say that certain things wernt ment to be. (like capitlism).  Abortion is more like a left wing nazi thing.  It will create major problems for any soicallist movements in power. (stupid people with homemade bombs can do a lot of damage.

Not to mention the hole idea of surgate pegrency is coming of age.  :confused:  If people can find out thy are pegernt before implantaion athe embryo can be surgaiclly transport to anthor women.  Far better choice than abortion.

[ScottMcR]

to how many women is that option open in theis society? i don't see a tie between abortion and terrorism ?!? there are many reasons when abortion is the only right answer and obviously many reason where it is wrong. i am open to both sides but still believe that the final choice is with the mother to be.

women can become pregnant for sooo many reasons, some of which are beyond there control and i dont think it's fair in any society to brand a women who goes for abortion as a nazi.

comradely
scott

[JosephV]

Capitalism was 'meant' to be.

[styrken]

Originally posted by Miestermatt
Abortion is more like a left wing nazi thing.  It will create major problems for any soicallist movements in power.

¨

Sory, but where have you developed this idea? In a catholic church or on Sirius? Abortion is never a problem for the society - its a personel problem, and do not have anything to do with "nazi-things" and will never be major problem for any socialist movement... I dont know if you know anybody, who "suddenly" becomes pregnant in our age (17-18-19)? I really respect those, who want to have the child, but I also REALLY understand those who want to have an abortion. As long as people have sex with each other, some womens will become pregnant against their wishes... Do you really want a lot of these womans to change their whole life in a direction, they dont want? Or you just wanna abolish people having sex :D ?
Whatever you do, Im sure you cant prevent neither sex or abortion :D


The way I look on the problem is like Scott, some times its more unreasonable to give birth to the children, that it is to "kill" it, when its still just a bunch of cells... A lot of children isnt happy being a live, because of problems capitalism gives to a lot of familys, thats also the reason why the rate of suicides have been increased with 10% since 1970.

[mir]

I suppose I now see clearly the reasons for abortions, but why isn't giving your baby up for adoption a good choice?  Abortion, as I have said, should be only used when condoms, birth control pills, and adoption have failed, but that should rarely happen.

[OUTOFTHENIGHT]

There is nothing "nazi" about choice.Nazi's didnt believe in choice.They even had special breeding programmes to select good blonde hair , blue eyed Aryans to carry on the master race.
We are talking about a womans RIGHT to choose.There is nothing "un-marxist" about that. The pro-capitalist religious right believe women should remain in the home as some kind of unpaid household slave.This is just a load of old shiite.If we are to accept women as equals we have to accept a womens right to choose.The struggle for socialism needs us as a united class, and that includes being united sexually.
Ian

[OUTOFTHENIGHT]

Also, I forgot to add, what parents and mothers need is support. Good creche facilities, more welfare support, better medical support, well equipped educational facilities. These cant be realised under capitalism.Any reforms brought by socialist , while supported by marxists, will always be threatened by capitalism unless we work for the socialist reconstruction of society as the only way to eliminate want ,need and poverty as  the BIGGEST threat to the unborn child.
Ian

[ScottMcR]

hey mir, the adoption thing is of course an option but think about the effect carry a child for nine months just to give it up could have on a mother and even the affect it could have on her health if thats the reason she is having an abortion.
you're right ian, support is whats needed. sympathy, empathy, understanding and support would mean that the people worried about the life of an unborn child and the people wanting the woman to have control over HER OWN body could come to terms with the fact that abortion is not just being used as an easy option but as a thought about and understood process.
religion has a lot to blame on this i believe. but still hold to the simple fact that i have stated all along  - - that it is the womans choice and it is very, very un-Marxist of men to try and take any control or push any points on this.

comradely
scott

[Miestermatt]

Alright then, But what your all forgetting is that a chruch without power will not effect poltics.  SO in the end I say, we revolt set up goverment and let women decide what they want.

[ScottMcR]

how can you say that now after your opening statement?? :)
dialectics seems to work wonders in you.

so whats made you change your tune?

comradely
scott

[Miestermatt]

More thinking. Damn schools, nothing to do make me think, I still dont advocate, But i think its more trouble than is worth. With anti-abortionist well blow everything they can up and it will be up to us to hold the fort. gasint the induhviduals.