Abortion

[Miestermatt]

Aboration is murder, As marxst I could not support that.  Before you enter in the fact of this statisic or that graph. Consider this Nowhere in The Communist Manifesto or Capital does Marx ever even mention aboration. Marxism is freedom and true equality. Why should anyone have the right to say who lives and dies. I can tell you Marx Did not intend for us to think we are god.

[mir]

I'll agree with you that abortion is bad but in the case of rape or some other kind of crime, I don't think it's wrong.  Birth control such as condoms are the best way to prevent pregnancy, and if you can't get them, you shouldn't be having sex!  All-in-all, I think that abortion, except in the case of crime, is to be abolished.

[petrel]

You may be a extreme Right religious troll; or maybe just a very confused [male] person. "Abortion is murder" is a slogan of extreme Right Roman Catholics, Fundamentalist Protestants and other religious nutcases; like the Army of God who murder doctors in the US, Chimpansee Bu$h and that ilk [sorry .. I retract that as an insult to real chimpansees]. Women should decide whether to have pregnancy themselves.
Not the Church, not the State, WOMEN should decide. After the October Revolution, abortion immediately became legal in the Soviet Union. Oh yes, "god" does not decide because of non-existence. And you do not seem to believe in "true" equality for women.

[Miestermatt]

UM ok well as for your beilefs about god go right ahead. But true equality for everyone iinculdes all life forms that are sentient or have a high proabilty of becoming Sentitent(Humans, Their young.

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

But true equality for everyone iinculdes all life forms that are sentient or have a high proabilty of becoming Sentitent

What your are in fact advocating is that true equality is not for women since you don't wan't to let them decide what to do with their own body.

[petrel]

Sorry, a woman is a person. A clump of cells is *not*. So the woman should decide. Not you, Bu$h, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson,or any religious nutcase. If a woman is forced to go ahead with a pregnancy she hates, what life will that be for an unwanted baby? Any baby when born should be a *welcome* baby.

[turnoviseous]

Ok, just carry on, but what has this with dialectics? :D

Someone should move this thread to social section....

[marx_was_right]

I support abortion, why should anyone have to bring a child into the world if they don't want it, or can't afford to feed it?

You can't remember being in the womb anyway, so aborted 'babies' arent missing anything.

And yeah, what about dialectics? :confused:

[styrken]

I gues we support the right to free abortion, but we dont recommend women to have an abortion...

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

but we dont recommend women to have an abortion...

No of course not. Abortations shouldn't be used deliberately, when we have smarter things such as pills, condoms etc.
But if the accident happens it must be every womans right to have an abortion.

[ScottMcR]

i agree with teis, abortion should be used as the last resort where needed or necessary but also it is the woman who should have the final say and decision on what is done to her body. i don't belive that a baby becomes a person as soon as it is concieved, or even becomes a baby as soon as it is concieved. that harps back to too much religious thought about souls and stuff for me. i believe that even in a socialist world there will be reasons and occurances outwith our control when abortion will be the only choice the woman may have, be it for her life or any other reasons that may arise.

i still say that without a dount the final word should be down to the woman and feel it slightly out of place that its us males that are at this time in this thread arguing the point when all we have is the moral ground we believe we stand on and are in no way able to properly sympathise enough with women in that position to make even an uneducated hypothesis.

unwanted abortions is the least of our worry at the moment when kids are born into oppression only to die at the hands of the Capitalist regime.

comradely
scott

[OUTOFTHENIGHT]

Petrel you are absolutely correct.Its an issue for women to decide.They have to carry for 9 months , put up with the sickness and the complete lack of independence, and at the end of the 9 months ,the worry and stress involved bringing a new born into the world.The stress is worsened whenthe mother knows they are bringing a child into poverty which the majority of women have to face in todays capitalist society.
I have 3 kids and know the stress involved in bringing them up.That is nothing compared to what my partner feels who had to organically bring them into the world in a way which most women face, a very violent fashion.Before anyone criticises my last sentence, remember I was present at the birth of all my kids so I know what Im talking about.
My personal opinion , on that experience, is that I am pro abortion  insofar as I defend the right of the MOTHER to choose.It is down to her that the final decision is made and I totally trust my partners choise without question.When my partner first fell pregnant ,in difficult personnal circumstances, we were offered the choice of termination. We CHOOSE to keep the pregnancy.
It was down to us , no one else.But I do realise we were luckier than  a large percentage of women .
Meistermatt, what I suggest you do is talk to a few parents and draw your conclusions from there.In a communist society the choise would be down to the mother but I would like to add that the need for abortion would be to a large degree lessened because the economic cause for abortion ie capitalism would be eliminated.
Ian

[Miestermatt]

Originally posted by petrel
Sorry, a woman is a person. A clump of cells is *not*. So the woman should decide. Not you, Bu$h, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson,or any religious nutcase. If a woman is forced to go ahead with a pregnancy she hates, what life will that be for an unwanted baby? Any baby when born should be a *welcome* baby.

Its called adoption.  The entire point is made irrevent by the fact that YFIS is not unified.  No System is unifed.  Unfortantly last time the us goverment was unfied i became a potenal terrorist(patriot acts).  But adpotion should be the answer.  I have been doing some schorly studies of Animal Farm.  (George Orwell) it seems also to be a algory for the manifesto itself.  Killing people who will have the chance to become responsible membes of is just counter productive.

[marx_was_right]

Taking away a womans choice of whether she gives birth or not is counter productive in my opinion. And as Ian pointed out she has to carry a child for 9 months before going through great pain to give birth. The termination of a bundle of cell's is not "killing" anyone, but also, if we were to take such a horrified stance against death then it might make a socialist revolution rather difficult (the ruling class would not give up power without a fight). Of course no one is 'pro-violence' but we cannot take a pacifist stance either.

[mir]

I guess you guys have made me change my mind and now I think a woman should choose but I still believe abortion should be the very, very, very last resort.