Trotskys vs. Lenin

[AnarchoSkeez]

What do you think would have happened if Trotsky took control of the Red Army? Does anyone think Russia would have been a different place if Lenin didnt take power but Trotsky did?

[des-esseintes]

Originally posted by AnarchoSkeez
What do you think would have happened if Trotsky took control of the Red Army? Does anyone think Russia would have been a different place if Lenin didnt take power but Trotsky did?

:mad: :confused:

If Lenin didn't take power but Trotsky did? What are you talking about? They were the two most prominent members of the Central Committee on the eve of the Revolution! They fundamentally agreed on all important issues! Your question just doesn't make sense.

If Trotsky took control of the Red Army? :o In fact, he CREATED the Red Army and was in control of it all the time until Stalin removed him from the position of War Commissar. Are you just repeating some muddled, Stalinist slanders here? :confused:

[AnarchoSkeez]

When one thinks of the Russian Revolution most people think that Lenin was the head man. Lenin, the way i see it and a marxist friend of mine see it, mad most of the decesions. What if Trotsky was the lead man. What if Trotsky made most of the decsions. Would Russia been a completely different place. More socialist and without the whole Stalin thing? I also have sources basically saying Lenin made most of the decesions. I think Trotsky was more down to earth and would have made a better front man. Lenin took the idea of "the dictatorship of the proletariat" to far. The end never justifies the means. Which Lenin did constantly.

[turnoviseous]

No, as was already explained, we marxists are historical materialists. Trotsky´s "taking over" instead of Stalin would do nothing good. Actually more bad than good, as Ted Grant correctly analyses in

http://www.marxist.com/russiabook/part2.html (check out Why didn´t Trotsky take power?)

I think you should read the whole book if you want to understand a marxist view on the development of USSR from start to the end. It is really the best book I have ever read.

http://www.marxist.com/russiabook/index.asp

[OUTOFTHENIGHT]

I agree. You cant take this argument in isolation.If Trotsky was at the helm , you must not forget that Russia was not a developed country  as  far as capitalism was concerned. Also the revolution was isolated; waiting for developments in the rest of europe , in particular Germany.He would have carried on the same line as Lenin.TurnV.is correct with his links on the russia book. Lenin and Trotsky :What they really stood for, by T Grant and A Woods also explain this  clearly.
Ian

[AnarchoSkeez]

um...ok then...does anyone think Lenin did more bad than good? or is this just an isolated thought on my part?

[kinetikos]

or is this just an isolated thought on my part?

Isolated. Yes.

A thought on your part? Not so much.

[Elijah Craig]

No one "took power".  Trot factionalized and was cast out of the party.  (He was the most unpopular of all the members).

Your original quesiton does not make sense.

[JosephV]

I understood the question as "What would have happenend if Trotsky had been the one to undergo cult of personality, rather than Lenin?"

[AnarchoSkeez]

yea

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

No one "took power". Trot factionalized and was cast out of the party. (He was the most unpopular of all the members).

Here we se the stalinist way of argueing.- None!!:D

[kinetikos]

Leon Trotsky chose the pen when he had Lenin's Will, The Will of the People and the whole Red Army behind him...

Meanwhile the thug snuck in and started his petty politicking.

It was a mistake, but an honest one. Shoulda locked that lumpen up, for a while.

[kinetikos]

Lenin did warn that Trotsky was too interested in getting on with the construction of socialism. Trotsky should have taken this to heart a bit more and heeded Lenin's other warning about the uncouth, brutish dullard, Joey Stalin.

A mistake.

Lesson learned.

[Vespucci]

"Lesson learned."

Very true. I think Trotsky's downfall, other than giving him the opportunity to write, also shows how important it is to the Marxists that the means of something are also its ends. But pacifism of Trotsky's kind in that struggle is worse than being forced to factionalise the party.

[Elijah Craig]

Can you prove any of these "dullard" comments?  It gets old, deary deary dear.

Trot undergo a cult?  How?  He was hated by the entire CP?