a bit of a slump

[darcy]

i was just wondering if any of you people noticed a slump larger than usualy this summer in terms if activity? because i know that in my town. whenever there was a day school only about 2-4 people would ever show up. even all the coalitions were dead. though now its slowly picking back up. i even noticed that in the i.s. (i will now call the i.s. the only game in town for it is the only socialist group in victoria) we lost some members, i think it might have been due to the fact that mabye the war in iraq wasn't stopped. so have any of you noticed this problem? or mabye have you been able to cure this problem? i would love some advice.

[Volkov]

A lot of Socialist organizations are in bad shape because they are starting when very few support them.  They generally put out propaganda that no one follows.  I believe that the Socialist organizations are starting prematurely, and that these organizations should wait until the masses are in misery before they start taking action.

[ScottMcR]

not that i know too much but i can't really agree with you there volkov  "these organizations should wait until the masses are in misery before they start taking action."
should we be starting things now and planting as much of a seed of marxist views as possible? we can't wait for the people to realise that - they were wrong and we were right all along - for them to turn to marxism. it must be educated and discussed as much as possible so that when the time comes people will not be brushed up because they have lost all hope but realise there are ways and things to do to fight back and reclaim what is rightfully theirs.

educate the masses for a worker who knows is a worker with power.
hey and darcy i think a lot of people are being disheartened with the lack of progress and aparent achievements but we need to kep going. no one ever said it would be easy, but we fight, and becuase our fight if right we will win

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

I believe that the Socialist organizations are starting prematurely, and that these organizations should wait until the masses are in misery before they start taking action.

The premature thing is to go out and proclaim a new workers party as for example SWP or SP in britain.
Concerning the slump in activity I think this boils down to if the different groups have had the right perspective.
Many leftwing groups taught that they could end the war simply by demonstrating. This has of course led to that their supporters have become a bit disillusioned.
Comradely

[Volkov]

Originally posted by ScottMcR
not that i know too much but i can't really agree with you there volkov  "these organizations should wait until the masses are in misery before they start taking action."
should we be starting things now and planting as much of a seed of marxist views as possible? we can't wait for the people to realise that - they were wrong and we were right all along - for them to turn to marxism. it must be educated and discussed as much as possible so that when the time comes people will not be brushed up because they have lost all hope but realise there are ways and things to do to fight back and reclaim what is rightfully theirs.

educate the masses for a worker who knows is a worker with power.
hey and darcy i think a lot of people are being disheartened with the lack of progress and aparent achievements but we need to kep going. no one ever said it would be easy, but we fight, and becuase our fight if right we will win

With the strength of status-quo propaganda, almost all people will disagree with Marxism, and they will just consider us as idiots.  Just try it.  Anyone who hears the term "Communism" thinks of a brutal dictatorship.  Those who do know what it is either don't care or think that it is impossible.  It is better for Marxists like ourselves to communicate among ourselves only to think about things.  When the masses are in misery, then they will no longer be under the foul influence of today's governments, and then they will be far more open to our ideals.

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

I think you take it to far Volkov.
Even with the situation being less favourable it is still important and possible to build a group.
In conditions like this you will have to recruit the "ones and two's"
and make sure to raise the theoretical levels of the cadres.
Or else you won't be able to have any effect when the masses start to move.
Besides that I don't think the situation is so unfavourable in all of the USA.
Comradely

[MrCackle]

"A single step in the right direction is better than a thousand committees" -- Karl Marx

We should not be worrying about group membership, but rather group ACTIVITIES. That means focusing on newspapers, fliers, support groups for the workers. Stop discussing and start ACTING. Do not worry about the membership of the committees, but rather worry about how you will attract people. It takes only 1 person with the right way of getting people's attention and showing them that we are focused on equality to create a movement.

[proletarianrevo]

Well, I think, as Teis already said, that the main reason why people are dropping out of politics, are that they haven't been educated properly and that no perspective has been given.

I think that if you keep educating your members, most of them will stay in your organization. And this applies both to theoretical education and practical education, i.e. taking part in the class struggle (strikes, tradeunion work, youth work, etc.).

[ScottMcR]

as Trotsky said -

"It is necessary to help the masses in the process of the daily struggle to find the bridge between present demands and the socialist program of the revolution."

i take the masses in that quote as meaning the uneducated ( in Marxism) worker. we cant be complacent. it's seemd almost like hiding away until we think the time is right... whats so revolutionary about that?? Someone has to start the revolution. we all know that the Capitalist system will not just surrender to us so it's going to take a fight and the fight starts with training wich is another way of saying educating. i know i am pretty new to all this but the thought of just sitting back and learning my theories and philsophies until the time is right for is to step into the gap left by the dying Capitalist regime seems a bit of a pipe dream to me. i plan to get out there and work for our future. we need people on our side so i say teach, discuss, explain and enlighten. but hey, maybe thats just me =)

always in solidarity

scott

[OUTOFTHENIGHT]

Scott. I agree with what you are saying but I would like to add that you have to be careful not to fall in the trap of doing activity for the sake of activity. Marxist discussion groups, where the theory is discussed, are not just talking shops. We must always remind ourselves of this. Marxism is a guide to action ; we determine our activities to the given conditions of the day.We learn the relevant lessons and discuss and re-discuss the possible perspectives for the proleteriat and its organisations. This should go hand in hand with a constant appraisal , updating where necessary, of the crisis in capitalism. I always take comfort that Marx himself had periods of inactivity , where the priority was to strengthen the ideas theoretically; off the top of my head the period after 1848 was a time when he returned to the ideas, to base future propoganda amongst workers.
Ian

[ScottMcR]

a very valid point ian =) put like that there is no argument against such periods of inactivity i just don't agree with the idea of sitting back on your laurels when things dont seem to be working out or much seems to be happening. there is no point or need to let the fire go out. if inactivity signals the fact that we are actually taking time and space to deepen and continue our theoretical works then that is just as good as being out there and bringing it to the people but therefore if this inactivity is due to lack of drive, belief, motivation or hope then i feel its a bad thing.
bet lets hope that this quiet area is because people are taking stock and reading up and preparing for a step forward from a stronger position.
comradely

scott