Parental Use of "Reasonable" Force

[Volkov]

I was bored, and I was reading around about some status-quo laws, and some laws still preserve parental "reasonable" force of physical violence toward their children (such as spankings*, forceful restraint, etc).  It is disturbing to know that such laws still exist.  People who practice these laws should be imprisoned for what is technically assault.

*Spankings are only allowed in households.  

A definition of this "reasonable" force is "In accordance to Minnesota* statute, reasonable force may be used, without consent, by a teacher or other lawful custodian of a child or student, in the exercise of lawful authority to restrain or correct such a child."

*Minnesota is the US state I live in.

You know, this "reasonable" force, is in reality, assault.  Disturbing.  The status quo is sickening.  I don't know if these laws are in effect for all US states, but they are in my home state of Minnesota.

Also, no one has had to use these "reasonable" methods on me;  I just think that they are disturbing and unfair.  Well, I was spanked as a child, but that was long ago.

[Danish]

Those laws exist in Canada too.

[Volkov]

Originally posted by Danish
Those laws exist in Canada too.

These laws are probably means of the Bourgeoisie indirectly (in a sense), lashing out at people;  the parents and cops are already brainwashed by the Bourgeoisie and government, and the cops and parents use their "reasonable" power to make the prisoners and kids stand for the Bourgeoisie.  Well, it is mostly for cops these days;  physical punishment of children over here in the US (or at least in my home state) is virtually unheard of, and when it is heard of, it is considered some type of child abuse.

[turnoviseous]

Here parents are also allowed to use force. And if it is somehow discovered that parents beat kids too much, they are taken away from them. There were some examples in Slovenia when state took children from couples who had been beating their kid too much.  In one case a local doctor discovered this fact when they brought the kid to him and saw all those black weals.

[Volkov]

I don't even see why physical punishment of children is allowed (except for some parts of Scandanavia, where spanking has been outlawed).  There is lots of evidence that has proven that spanking can cause low self-esteem, resentment toward parents and other negative effects.

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

(except for some parts of Scandanavia, where spanking has been outlawed).

Yeah here in Denmark it is not legal to spank your kids. But unfortunately not much is being done to prevent it.
Some of the liberal fucks:mad:  now also talk about that it is messing with people's "freedom" to legislate about things like that.
Comradely

[Volkov]

Originally posted by T.K.A.-Denmark
Yeah here in Denmark it is not legal to spank your kids. But unfortunately not much is being done to prevent it.
Some of the liberal fucks:mad:  now also talk about that it is messing with people's "freedom" to legislate about things like that.
Comradely

The whole argument of "parental freedom" is bullshit.  The child should have freedom not to be physically struck as a form of punishment.  I was spanked as a child (and probably for too long;  my parents did not stop until I was around 10 or 11 years old), and it took its toll on my self-esteem.  Those nations outlawed spanking for a reason;  there is proof that it does far more harm than good to a child.

If parents are going to have power over their kids, there aresimple and more effective ways of parental force than spanking.

It is also interesting to note that those Scandanavian nations tend to have higher standards of living and lower crime rates;  spanking teaches kids violence, and perhaps that can contribute to a crime rate of a nation.  Over here in the US, many psychologists and peditricians are against spanking, but since so many people over here in the US believe that spanking is a parent's right, the people against it (the psychologists and peditiricians) do not support a ban on it becuase they think that it would be very unlikely for a nation like the US to outlaw spanking.  And the US has a rather high crime rate.  

On a side note, do any of you know all of the nations that have outlawed spanking?  I have heard that there are at least ten nations that have, but I have only seen specific reference to Sweden and Denmark;  the source said that there were ten, but it only said that Denmark and Sweden and other nations had outlawed this evil practice.  What are the other nations that are against spanking?

Comrade TKA Denmark, do you know what the penalty is for parents that get caught/reported for spanking their children is if gets enforced?  Fines?  Jail time?  Loss of child custody?  

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

Comrade TKA Denmark, do you know what the penalty is for parents that get caught/reported for spanking their children is if gets enforced? Fines? Jail time? Loss of child custody?

Hmm i'm not sure, but in extreme cases loss of child custody will be sure, and probably jail too. In more light cases I guess there will be a hearing and then the authorities decide.
Comradely

[Andi]

More contructively.

The use of violence is a lasting resort. Any parent/carer who can't reason with their child, use reverse psychology on them, have some control over the situation - is really in need of help.

Though (i don;t agree with this bit but I'll put it foreward) some children and adolescents can become a handful, esp. with attention deposit disorders or just a very under-stimulated environment, there a certain conditions where use of "reasonable force" is... uh... "reasonable"

But it doesn't say alot about a parent/carer/guardian if they can let a situation degenerate to that low level before realising and/or acting - keep a child happy, stimulated, engaged, a balanced life of variety and emotions and the child will issue self restraint instead of going nuts with aggression

(I'm badly trying not to mention reactionary parenting or stereotypical hick parenting, really I am trying but the images of kids with guns just leaps to mind)

[mir]

If your child makes a big mistake, then why shouldn't you punish them?  However, I also make the difference between abusing and punishing.  For example, if my child accidently spilled milk of the carpet, I wouldn't physically hit them.  But, if they started to curse me out or something, then of course I would hit them.  I mean seriously, what's the big deal about punishing your children, if it isn't regularly done and to an excess?

[Andi]

Because it's an unnessecary act of violence against another. A very young child might not realise you are punishing them, only that you've hit them.

If you cannot reason your way out of a situation, you're not much of a human being. I need only to cite Bush Senior, look as his children. Need I say more.... Actually it's quite disturbing.

[Volkov]

Originally posted by mir
If your child makes a big mistake, then why shouldn't you punish them?  However, I also make the difference between abusing and punishing.  For example, if my child accidently spilled milk of the carpet, I wouldn't physically hit them.  But, if they started to curse me out or something, then of course I would hit them.  I mean seriously, what's the big deal about punishing your children, if it isn't regularly done and to an excess?

Well, you don't need to physically punish them.  Spanking has been proven to teach kids violence, breed resentment towards parents, and to cause low self-esteem.  I was spanked until I was about 11 years old, and it has damaged my self-esteem.  You don't need to hit them;  just send them to their room and ground them for a week or so.

So, you should punish your kids, but you should not physically punish them.  If you do not listen, and decide to physically punish them, the people that generally support spanking say to stop spanking when your child reaches the age of five or six to keep the physical punishment to a minimum.  But, I still think that you should never physically punish your children.

[djn]

Before you can reason with a child, spanking is effective. It isn't until around age six-to-nine that humans can effectively understand the consequences of their actions. Broadly speaking, the best kind of parenting is authoritative, not authoritarian, where general boundaries and rules are established and are generally enforced by reasoning with children, but spanking if necessary. Sometimes kids don't know that sticking a fork in an electric socket is dangerous.

[Volkov]

Originally posted by djn
Before you can reason with a child, spanking is effective. It isn't until around age six-to-nine that humans can effectively understand the consequences of their actions. Broadly speaking, the best kind of parenting is authoritative, not authoritarian, where general boundaries and rules are established and are generally enforced by reasoning with children, but spanking if necessary. Sometimes kids don't know that sticking a fork in an electric socket is dangerous.

I still don't think that spanking is necessary at all.  Afterall, the under-six-year-old children that are in countries where spanking is illegal don't have problems.  My parents did not spank me for forks in outlets, they just told me how dangerous they were, and they verbally scolded me for going near an outlet, burner, etc.  Unfotunately, they spanked me as a general form of punishment, and their end to spanking me was long overdue (they did not stop spanking me until I was around 11 years old).  It is true that spanking is effective between ages of 2 and 6, but the potential harm that can be caused by it does not make spanking worth it.

Also, spanking is a form of assault;  the child does not confess their bad actions and come up and ask for a spanking;  the child is just grabbed and spanked.  Spanking, in theory, would be okay with the child's conscent, but in reality, no child gives conscent for spanking.  

Also, it is pointless to spank beyond the age of 6;  it just made me more pissed at my parents, and later on, I started cheating the spanking system by wearing multiple pairs of underwear to reduce the impact of the blows.  Since I started cheating the system, I started liking spanking because it was an easy way out of long-term punishment.  

Also, it has been proven that spanking makes children more prone to low self-esteem (my previous link cites that a bit).  That is why it is bad.

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

Yes I agree with you Volkov.
My parents raised me and my brother without spanking us, except for one time when my mother hit me because she got really mad at me.
I think the reasons described by Volkov show why spanking is no option in raising your children.
To use it as a deliberate way of raising your children should be against the law, and would in no way be tolerated in a socialist society i'm sure.
Comradely