Theism is Atheism

[Christopher Hill]

Immaterial existence is no existence, If gods/souls/angels are immaterial, they are nothing - they do not exist. To believe that gods/souls/angels are immaterial is to believe there are no gods/souls/angels. Does this not show most forms of religion to be little more than a veiled Atheism?

[Paula Marx]

Religious people aren't materialists. Their point is to believe in something you can't touch or hear, but you can think of. For example, can you touch clouds? No, but you still believe they exist.

[brayen]

You're right paula but the example of the clouds is not accurate !

[Christopher Hill]

Religious people aren't materialists. Their point is to believe in something you can't touch or hear, but you can think of. For example, can you touch clouds? No, but you still believe they exist.

Clouds are made of matter, You are right in your basic assessment, but that is a terrible comparison. You do not have to be able to see or touch something for it to be real, many forms of matter are in fact  invisible, but being able to think of something doesn't make it real either - I can think of flying purple hippos, this doesn't make them exist.

[Pie]

Immaterial existence is no existence, If gods/souls/angels are immaterial, they are nothing - they do not exist. To believe that gods/souls/angels are immaterial is to believe there are no gods/souls/angels. Does this not show most forms of religion to be little more than a veiled Atheism?

What about gravity? Gravity itself has no material existence; it is not made of matter itself, but does that mean it doesn't exist and has no effect on matter? This is similar to what idealists/religious people think of souls; souls themselves have no matter themselves but are not independent of matter. I think your reasoning is faulty here.
Anyways I don't see how that makes those people atheism; atheism is believing they don't exist and is religion's direct opposite, religious people believe they do exist. Whether or not these supernatural forces exist is another matter.

[Paula Marx]

Religious people aren't materialists. Their point is to believe in something you can't touch or hear, but you can think of. For example, can you touch clouds? No, but you still believe they exist.

Clouds are made of matter, You are right in your basic assessment, but that is a terrible comparison. You do not have to be able to see or touch something for it to be real, many forms of matter are in fact  invisible, but being able to think of something doesn't make it real either - I can think of flying purple hippos, this doesn't make them exist.

Everything exists if you make it so, because it can only be in your mind. If you think the Bible is holy book, for example, it will be holy to you. If you find it usual, it will be so. If you have never heard of Bible, it doesn't exist for you, and if you haven't seen it, you believe it exists. Is that the proof of existance? Religious subjects exist for religious people because they make them so. Or something like that.
Terrible comparison or not, you know what I mean. Religious people don't have proofs because the aim of religion is to believe, no to prove. I have learned Catholicism for 8 years so I can think like a Catholic.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Pie:

What about gravity? Gravity itself has no material existence; it is not made of matter itself, but does that mean it doesn't exist and has no effect on matter? This is similar to what idealists/religious people think of souls; souls themselves have no matter themselves but are not independent of matter. I think your reasoning is faulty here.
Anyways I don't see how that makes those people atheism; atheism is believing they don't exist and is religion's direct opposite, religious people believe they do exist. Whether or not these supernatural forces exist is another matter.

Of course, the modern use of the word "gravity" is just shorhand for the way material bodies behave in a certain field; it refers to the relative motion of bodies, and as such is an entirely materialist term.

Unless you can translate theological words in a similar manner into the language of material bodies, then it makes no sense.

[roxannpark]

Religious people aren't materialists. Their point is to believe in something you can't touch or hear, but you can think of. For example, can you touch clouds? No, but you still believe they exist.

wow.. i am outwit by your answer.. yeah.. religion keeps somebody believing. on the other hand, it helps keep peace in the society since religions teaches goodwill.

[Paula Marx]

Okay, it may be the terrible comparison, but you all got the point. Religious people don't need proofs!

I don't think being religious is the only way to keep peace. Faith is what's important! If a Christian and communist believe in same things, that means they can function better (of course, if they are not strictly divided by only thing that tears them apart, God) than two "communists" who don't believe in real ideals.

[roxannpark]

Okay, it may be the terrible comparison, but you all got the point. Religious people don't need proofs!

I don't think being religious is the only way to keep peace. Faith is what's important! If a Christian and communist believe in same things, that means they can function better (of course, if they are not strictly divided by only thing that tears them apart, God) than two "communists" who don't believe in real ideals.

you are right.. but i did not say that religion is the only way. it only helps maintain peace. on the other hand, it also matters to every person. as to what level their faith is and how sincere they are in serving their God.

[Paula Marx]

Okay, it may be the terrible comparison, but you all got the point. Religious people don't need proofs!

I don't think being religious is the only way to keep peace. Faith is what's important! If a Christian and communist believe in same things, that means they can function better (of course, if they are not strictly divided by only thing that tears them apart, God) than two "communists" who don't believe in real ideals.

you are right.. but i did not say that religion is the only way. it only helps maintain peace. on the other hand, it also matters to every person. as to what level their faith is and how sincere they are in serving their God.

That is true. Truly faithful (religious) people will try to follow all the commands, not only commands related to God - I know lots of people who go to church and pray just to keep reputation of good believer, even they do bad things in life and they have certainly never read the Bible.

[roxannpark]

Okay, it may be the terrible comparison, but you all got the point. Religious people don't need proofs!

I don't think being religious is the only way to keep peace. Faith is what's important! If a Christian and communist believe in same things, that means they can function better (of course, if they are not strictly divided by only thing that tears them apart, God) than two "communists" who don't believe in real ideals.

you are right.. but i did not say that religion is the only way. it only helps maintain peace. on the other hand, it also matters to every person. as to what level their faith is and how sincere they are in serving their God.

That is true. Truly faithful (religious) people will try to follow all the commands, not only commands related to God - I know lots of people who go to church and pray just to keep reputation of good believer, even they do bad things in life and they have certainly never read the Bible.

you really are so right there comrade... i am not even active in church honestly. i hate going to church when all i can see are plastic people. they tend to pretend they are good when they are in church but when they arrive home, their true colors come out. they are even worst then some beggars out there...

[Paula Marx]

Okay, it may be the terrible comparison, but you all got the point. Religious people don't need proofs!

I don't think being religious is the only way to keep peace. Faith is what's important! If a Christian and communist believe in same things, that means they can function better (of course, if they are not strictly divided by only thing that tears them apart, God) than two "communists" who don't believe in real ideals.

you are right.. but i did not say that religion is the only way. it only helps maintain peace. on the other hand, it also matters to every person. as to what level their faith is and how sincere they are in serving their God.

That is true. Truly faithful (religious) people will try to follow all the commands, not only commands related to God - I know lots of people who go to church and pray just to keep reputation of good believer, even they do bad things in life and they have certainly never read the Bible.

you really are so right there comrade... i am not even active in church honestly. i hate going to church when all i can see are plastic people. they tend to pretend they are good when they are in church but when they arrive home, their true colors come out. they are even worst then some beggars out there...

I'm glad you agree with me. I'm an atheist, but I have learned Catholicism for 8 years. Almost everyone I know is pretending to be a perfect Catholic by going to church, while I also know some people who never go to church, but they live better than any "Catholic".