Earthquake Emergency in Chile

[Christopher Hill]

I must start this paragraph by expressing my condolences to anyone who has themselves been affected or have had friends or family affected by this disaster, my solidarity is with the Chilean people and the people of all countries which have been harmed by this Earthquake and the resulting Tsunami, but the main subject of this thread is to answer one question, one which may not be so simple. Following a devastating magnitude 8.8 Earthquake 100 times more powerful than the one in Haiti and a Tsunami which could end up costing many more lives all over the Pacific, what should our actions be? Should we fight for cancellation of Chilean national debt like was done in Haiti, or is there perhaps something more we can do?

[Friedman]

So an earthquake entitles you to cancel out your debt?

Makes perfect sense.

Not to mention, Chile is perfectly capable of repaying its minuscule debt.

[Joshua Purcell]

It's understandable to compare both the recent quakes in Haiti and Chile, but it's important keep in mind that even though the earthquake was much stronger in Chile, the death toll is not anywhere close to the level found in Haiti (at least not at this early stage... it could still change). Haiti has historically been a much smaller and poorer country than Chile, and from what I can tell at this point it seems the wealth and resource distribution in Haiti (at least what is left after the involvement of principally the US and France) is also much more heavily skewed towards a select few individuals. That meant that over time people had fewer resources to build with, and in turn they had less ability or desire to worry about making their buildings structurally fit for disasters such as the earthquake.

Chile has and continues to have its share of interference from neoliberal powers (mainly the US in recent times), but there have been periods throughout it's history where its government worked to be responsive to its people rather than the few who happened to have the overwhelming amount of money and resources. Of course, like Haiti and everywhere else in that part of the world at one time or another, the US was successful in putting an end to those governments who made it a point to redistribute resources to the people. Neoliberalism has come up with ways to siphon money and resources from many types of governments with more or less success depending on the government's level of authority and control over its citizens. Dictators, like Chile's Pinochet, were installed precisely because he provided a surprisingly suitable extremely brutal government to ensure the success of US aims for gaining control over Chile's resources at the average Chilean's expense. With the correct institutions in control of these resources, Chile was left alone by the US while its dictator killed numerous people and instilled fear of the government that stills exists to this day. The US was fine with all this because these actions were directed towards the average Chilean. After all, the people of Chile wanted to disrupt both the relations between themselves and their brutal government as well as (and because of) the relationship between their government and the US.

Obviously the situation wasn't the same in Haiti. I'm sure you already know all this CH, but it seems that others may not be aware. A call for canceling debt for these countries is not due to the earthquakes alone, but it is also demanded due to the fact that most of these countries' debts are being repaid disproportionately from the average people of those countries who had no role in forming the relations that are demanding payment of those debts. There are other details and reasons but it's too late for me.

[Paula Marx]

That's all done by USA imperialists who just want to get the rule of everything and make all places in the world depend on them.

[Christopher Hill]

It's understandable to compare both the recent quakes in Haiti and Chile, but it's important keep in mind that even though the earthquake was much stronger in Chile, the death toll is not anywhere close to the level found in Haiti (at least not at this early stage... it could still change). Haiti has historically been a much smaller and poorer country than Chile, and from what I can tell at this point it seems the wealth and resource distribution in Haiti (at least what is left after the involvement of principally the US and France) is also much more heavily skewed towards a select few individuals. That meant that over time people had fewer resources to build with, and in turn they had less ability or desire to worry about making their buildings structurally fit for disasters such as the earthquake.

Chile has and continues to have its share of interference from neoliberal powers (mainly the US in recent times), but there have been periods throughout it's history where its government worked to be responsive to its people rather than the few who happened to have the overwhelming amount of money and resources. Of course, like Haiti and everywhere else in that part of the world at one time or another, the US was successful in putting an end to those governments who made it a point to redistribute resources to the people. Neoliberalism has come up with ways to siphon money and resources from many types of governments with more or less success depending on the government's level of authority and control over its citizens. Dictators, like Chile's Pinochet, were installed precisely because he provided a surprisingly suitable extremely brutal government to ensure the success of US aims for gaining control over Chile's resources at the average Chilean's expense. With the correct institutions in control of these resources, Chile was left alone by the US while its dictator killed numerous people and instilled fear of the government that stills exists to this day. The US was fine with all this because these actions were directed towards the average Chilean. After all, the people of Chile wanted to disrupt both the relations between themselves and their brutal government as well as (and because of) the relationship between their government and the US.

Obviously the situation wasn't the same in Haiti. I'm sure you already know all this CH, but it seems that others may not be aware. A call for canceling debt for these countries is not due to the earthquakes alone, but it is also demanded due to the fact that most of these countries' debts are being repaid disproportionately from the average people of those countries who had no role in forming the relations that are demanding payment of those debts. There are other details and reasons but it's too late for me.

What was concerning me is that while the death toll was low, reports seem to show a large amount of damage to businesses, Mostly small businesses, something which could have a significant effect on both the economy and the working people of the country.

[caesarscook]

So an earthquake entitles you to cancel out your debt?

Makes perfect sense.

Not to mention, Chile is perfectly capable of repaying its minuscule debt.

Just curious, did the US pay off debts owed by the colonies after the Revolution?  Should we have had to?  I'll answer for you on both accounts.  No, and no.  Did Haiti pay reparations to France for the "property" (read: slaves) that they lost when their slave colony of Hispaniola rebelled?  Should they have had to?  I'll help you out again.  Yes, and no.  So, that one is cut and dry IMO, earthquake or no earthquake.  As for Chile, we are for the ending of all debts owed by countries victimized by imperialism.  Simple as that. 

The logic of the development of global capitalism itself has made national borders obsolete.  Capitalism, nonetheless, is incapable of reconciling itself to the logic of the economic forces that it has unleashed.  It's "internationalism" remains and can only remain a limited and half-hearted farce, because as an economic mode of production, it is ultimately tied directly to the nation state.  Ultimately, individual national capitalist classes rely upon their individual nation states to defend their private property, as well as to organize the interests and profitability of their class as a whole within a given set of national borders.  It cannot be otherwise.  Only an international, socialist federation, tying the workers of the world together in a democratically planned economy across national borders and utilizing the complex international division of labor to its full effect for all involved, can overcome the contradictions of a world economy consistently plagued by inefficiencies rooted in the particularism of competing "national interests." 

But back to the topic at hand, holding an entire nation captive to some generalized debt bondage is an outmoded and disgusting practice.

[Christopher Hill]

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978099405
Second Earthquake in Chile, magnitude 7.2.

[yubaixin19]

Ah well

[simonmorrison23]

i hope everyone is ok in Chile. i just watched another news in the net, it hit my mother land. i hope no one was hurt badly though.

5.2     2010/10/06 21:57:42      6.625      124.887     52.1     MINDANAO, PHILIPPINES

[qiyuezhe]

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