wikipedia and trotskyism

[brayen]

I read in wikipedia that :"He (trotsky) considered himself an advocate of orthodox Marxism."( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Trotsky) and that trotskyists have no problems with israel ( this one is from ar.wiki...which mean it's in arabic so i will not give you the link.)..can somebody introduce to me the orthodox marxism and if that true that trotsky supported this movement ..plus..you trotskyists what do you thing about israel?? do you really  give zionists the right to make there racist country based on killing pelastinians and replace them ?? (sorry for the bad english and if somebody can reply in french it will be better.thanks!)

[Pie]

First, I'll say that you should treat wikipedia articles with suspicion at best; many things found in them are untrue and slanders.

Secondly, in regards to "orthodox marxism" I suppose Trotsky could have considered himself orthodox in opposition to reformists and people who cherry pick Marx. But, I think "orthodox marxism" isn't a useful term at all; it's vacuous. "Orthodox marxism" isn't any movement I've heard of.

Thirdly, it's an outright lie that Trotskyists have no problems with Israel. We oppose both anti-semitism and Zionism. For me, I think both the Palestinian and Israeli leaders should be thrown out and replaced by worker's rule. That's the only way to stop any violence there. The current "solution" offered by the the capitalists is to split the country in two and one side is ruled by the Israeli capitalists and the other by the Palestinian capitalists, but this hasn't made the country any better.

[Paula Marx]

I have never heard of "orthodox Marxism"  neither.

I am not a Trotskyst, but I support Zionism with my whole heart.

[brayen]

It's clear.. your picture indicates that you're close to stalinism..stalinism and zionism both are nationalists and act like fascist systems..and don't understand how someone considered  himself a communist and support such racist , religious movement like zionism..pelastinians are living in HELL because what the holly book said !!how can humanity understands the idea of this country (israel) built on humans bloods!! this is the highest level of american imperialism!! (sry for the bad english again!)

[Christopher Hill]

It's clear.. your picture indicates that you're close to stalinism..stalinism and zionism both are nationalists and act like fascist systems..and don't understand how someone considered  himself a communist and support such racist , religious movement like zionism..pelastinians are living in HELL because what the holly book said !!how can humanity understands the idea of this country (israel) built on humans bloods!! this is the highest level of american imperialism!! (sry for the bad english again!)

"Orthodox Marxism is the term used to describe the version of Marxism which emerged after the death of Karl Marx and acted as the official philosophy of the Second International up to the First World War and of the Third International thereafter. Orthodox Marxism seeks to simplify, codify and systematise Marxist thought, ironing out perceived ambiguities and contradictions.Orthodox Marxism can be associated with the late works of Friedrich Engels, such as Dialectics of Nature and Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, which were efforts to popularise Marx's work, make it more systematic, and apply it to the fundamental questions of philosophy. "

Desole pour le mauvais francais, mon oncle etait de convertir la plupart de celui-ci pour moi , mais trotskystes a la oppose des staliniens, nous sommes contre le sionisme et toutes les ideologies racistes, mais nous soutenons le peuple classe ouvriere de la Palestine et Israel comme les crimes d'Israel sont essentiellement les crimes de la bourgeoisie israelienne et non de la lutte de classe ouvriere.

[kowalskil]

Some of you might be interested in my just-published book:

AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF A FORMER COMMUNIST

go to  WWW[dot]AMAZON[dot]COM and search for Ludwik Kowalski
                                             
The first chapter (a condense version of the rest of the book) is now at:

http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/chapter1.html

Feel free to share this link with all those who might be interested.

Thank you in advance,

Ludwik Kowalski

KowalskiL@mail.montclair.edu

 P.S. The first short review of the book on Amamzon (either positive or negative), or elsewhere,  will appreciated.

[Paula Marx]

It's clear.. your picture indicates that you're close to stalinism..stalinism and zionism both are nationalists and act like fascist systems..and don't understand how someone considered  himself a communist and support such racist , religious movement like zionism..pelastinians are living in HELL because what the holly book said !!how can humanity understands the idea of this country (israel) built on humans bloods!! this is the highest level of american imperialism!! (sry for the bad english again!)

I don't know why should Jews only let Palestinians to rule their (Jewish) own country. That's only patriotism. I have never heard anything like that. That's only an ideology which came true. I also have no idea what has it to do with America and imperialism. Jews clearly refused any help from them.

[brayen]

Oh god!!!hey you should know more about israel,the zionism ideoligie and all the politics in the middle east...before taking a side and said that you don't have problem with israel (if you're rly a communist)

[Thought]

Here is to not recognising Israel as a state.

Paula, it seems that you lack an understanding of Israel.  If you were aware of the situation there i doubt you would feel the same.  Israel has been stolen from the palastinian people, who are now forced to live in shacks and shantys.  The state of israel is illegitimate!

[Christopher Hill]

Here is to not recognising Israel as a state.

Paula, it seems that you lack an understanding of Israel.  If you were aware of the situation there i doubt you would feel the same.  Israel has been stolen from the palastinian people, who are now forced to live in shacks and shantys.  The state of israel is illegitimate!

But is any state legitimate? All states have been created by the subjugation of one group of people or the other, The only reason that people care about Israel is because it is not deep in the past and very often becomes a current event once again, this does not make it right, and even more exasperates the need for a socialist future, and eventually a Communist one, in which we need no longer deal with any exploitative state.

[brayen]

NO, israel is deep in past,in fact zionism is based on history and specially what was mentioned in the bible befor 2000 years..the problem with israel isn't if it's legitimate or not..it's how the come and killed pelastinians to replace them...4 me ..they hate hitler but they're acting just like him..

[Christopher Hill]

NO, israel is deep in past,in fact zionism is based on history and specially what was mentioned in the bible befor 2000 years..the problem with israel isn't if it's legitimate or not..it's how the come and killed pelastinians to replace them...4 me ..they hate hitler but they're acting just like him..

Very true, but this same pattern has been followed by all states, and by this definition all states are built on theft and genocide and are thus illegitimate, and I would agree, but this does not mean we should forsake the working class of any nation, no matter how twisted the government which governs it.

[brayen]

Ok...

[Paula Marx]

Maybe I'm not objective because of my Jewish origin, but I agree Jews should fight for their country. I know what's going on and I am hardly against any aggressive methods, terorism and that stuff, but I still think Palestinians and Muslims have other their countries. Unfortunately, Jews are rarely treated fairly.

[JJM 777]

I support Zionism with my whole heart.

How about Canaanism, the idea that ancient Canaanites should return to their ancient homeland (who lived there for thousands of years longer than others combined, until Jews liberated them from their lands and lives)...

Just a penny for this thought.

By the way, Russia has a lot of land and only few people...