Haiti

[Joshua Purcell]

I'm sure people are following the Haiti crisis, but I wanted to find out what organizations you all have found that you believe are the best ones to support. My first choice is the Haiti Emergency Relief Fund, and more information can be found here:
http://www.haitiaction.net/About/HERF/HERF.html

I donated to the HERF, but I'm wondering if it there are other organizations that are as or more deserving? I would also like to see WIL or IMT collect donations from its members and send them to the appropriate source of our choosing, but I haven't brought this up to anyone aside from here... I may send an email later today regarding this. Let me know what you all think.

[CheVolution]

Yeah I think you should that is an excellent idea and a great way to see that the money gets to Haiti and not in someone else's hands.

[Christopher Hill]

It really is a shame that few Leftist groups have got involved with trying to help out with the hardships in the Haitian situation..This is precisely the type of thing we need to be ready for, how do you think these miserable proletarians feel about the fact that to the rest of the world their lives are only worth a fraction of the cost of our daily war effort?

[Jimi4444]

Can't get to involved with activism. The deaths and hardships faced by the Haitians are truly horrific. But as Marxists we need to realize that charity is not the way to solve the problems of the working class. To solve the problem of Haiti and other Haiti's in the future, we need to build socialism. With a planned economy (even in a deformed state like Cuba) the disaster would have been far less greater. What the IMT has to focus on is building the cadre to build the revolution, we can't get sucked into just being activists. Not to sound like an ass, but it's the truth. What we need is to build awareness of how things like this can be prevented much better under a planned economy and continue fighting for socialism.

[Marxista]

I disagree Jim.  Our focus is to build a cadre organization, but can't just say "well too bad" to our sisters and brothers in times of need.  I think the actions in Kashmir and Malakand of the PK comrades are excellent examples of what to do in times of crisis.

[Joshua Purcell]

Can't get to involved with activism. The deaths and hardships faced by the Haitians are truly horrific. But as Marxists we need to realize that charity is not the way to solve the problems of the working class. To solve the problem of Haiti and other Haiti's in the future, we need to build socialism. With a planned economy (even in a deformed state like Cuba) the disaster would have been far less greater. What the IMT has to focus on is building the cadre to build the revolution, we can't get sucked into just being activists. Not to sound like an ass, but it's the truth. What we need is to build awareness of how things like this can be prevented much better under a planned economy and continue fighting for socialism.

I strongly disagree. It is at times like these where the system that worked to create the situation is at its weakest, and the people who were so badly affected by this event are more united and are coming from a more level starting point than any other recent time in history.

There will be tons of aid going to Haiti although you can argue whether or not this aid arrived fast enough and is large enough. One thing that will eventually happen is this aid will be going to specific organizations and people to hand out as they see fit. We have already heard from organizations such as the Heritage Foundation saying this is a prime opportunity to rebuild Haiti as they would like to be built. Similar proclamations and their associated actions in the past have made Haiti what it is today, and if we are hoping to work against that process then we must support those groups who are representative of the working class in Haiti instead of the propped-up owners of the means of production and any other resource on the island... which is exactly what will be supported by groups that tend to listen and respect what is said by the Heritage Foundation.

If you are for Marxism, then you are for putting control into the hands of the working class. If this is true, then you would be for helping those in Haiti who would work towards this goal... especially at times when they need it most. Helping these organizations who are trying to build awareness of how this situation in Haiti and elsewhere came about is one of the best ways I can think of to do this... this isn't merely charity as you have said.

Whether political leftist organizations come out in a massive way to help the Haitians through their crisis or not, the conservative organizations will most definitely do so in the way the see will best guarantee that the previous status quo is continued. We can't allow that to happen without an answer.

[Jimi4444]

Capitalists are using the devastation in Haiti, for imperialist means. the USA is sending 100,000,000 in AID which more is spent in two days of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. To rely on charity organizations to help build the revolution in Haiti is completely Utopian and has absolutely no basis. As Marxists we need to realize that these organizations are NOT the solution and under capitalism there is no solution for the impoverished anywhere in the world. What we need is a socialist federation of Latin America and eventually the socialist federation of the world.

[Joshua Purcell]

To rely on charity organizations to help build the revolution in Haiti is completely Utopian and has absolutely no basis.

Who said anything about relying on charity organizations to spread the revolution? This comment represents something repulsive to me, I'm not too sorry to say. Some may choose to focus like a laser on their favorite textbook hypothesis for building a vanguard party in preparation for the coming revolution... while all around events are being played out that, if only the moment were seized, could do that very thing in both the short and long-term. After all, we shouldn't forget, as you obviously have, that the entire point of socialism is for all people to have a better life. I would like to know which idea is actually more Utopian: wanting to help the people of Haiti through both their immediate crisis (by giving aid) and their long-term systemic crisis of capitalism by making sure that the aid sent goes to organizations that focus on democratic goals for the country, or sitting on the side lines merely talking about how Haiti needs a revolutionary Marxist party while the people die because of lack of aid.

In one breath you justifiably complain about how little the US is sending to Haiti in comparison to the wars being fought, but then the very next you say that it is Utopian for a Marxist to send aid. Would you rather that Haiti not have any aid at all, and have them fend for themselves in the aftermath of both the massive earthquake and the ongoing imperialist/capitalist engagement? You go ahead and tell everyone how you can't be bothered to help the people, since you are working on your future revolutionary party. Meanwhile, Marxists like myself will make sure their revolutionary party is helping the people both now and in the future. Marxists like yourself will be waiting for quite some time if you are looking for a better time than now to start helping the people of Haiti.

Imagine how much affect it would have on the masses of Haiti to know that a Marxist party is working to help them in their greatest time of need?

EDIT: I should say that the only reason I brought up Haiti was because I was interested in hearing alternative organizations for sending aid other than the one I listed in my first post. I honestly don't know much about the HERF, but it is being recommended as a good source to send aid by the Haiti Action Committee. The Haiti Action Committee, according to their website, is dedicated to building democracy in Haiti, and has been doing so on the ground in Haiti since 1991. I'm sure there are other groups besides this, but I haven't looked enough to find any other since everything I can find seems to point to it being a good one to support (for all the right Marxist reasons I might add for anyone who feels the need to question it in that regard). If anyone has alternatives to this organization for sending aid and support please let me know.

[Jimi4444]

No need for hard feelings, only reason I commented was because I thought this would be a conversation about what Marxists think about charity. It's really a personal belief if you are for giving money to Haiti go for it, personally I would like to give my money to the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism. Due to the late stage of Haiti democracy there really is no way for it to progress anymore under capitalism. To much foreign interest and the national capitalist class won't sacrifice anything. I know there is some Haitian communities in the USA, if you live near one you could sell the paper there and get in some conversations and try to build contacts through that.

[Joshua Purcell]

I was too defensive... sorry about that. I understand what you mean by saying that charity in itself doesn't help anything. I actually agree with what you are saying, but I'm looking at the generic idea of giving aid from two sides: 1) the immediate aid to the Haiti people, and 2) the long-term "winning of the hearts and minds" if I can borrow the phrase. I see this and other activities as potentially being important ways to convince people that Marxist organizations like ours and the ones we find to support in Haiti are on the people's side if done in the right way, and then (if not already before this) they will be more willing to hear our explanations of the situation as well as our proposed solutions. In order to have this affect though, a Marxist organization would need to be identified in Haiti as one that would be able to function in this way. I am basically looking for a WIL in Haiti, or an IMT subsidiary.

Earlier in the thread I mentioned the possibility of leftist organizations (potentially the WIL) pooling resources to send aid. After talking with some other people though, a good answer was given that I didn't think about beforehand... we are too small of an organization to make a substantial contribution as a group, especially considering our understandably narrow focus at our current level of progression. Since individuals have already been contributing to the Haiti relief on that basis it seems that it would make sense to continue to do so as individuals.

[Jimi4444]

Point is even if the IMT did donate lets say 100,00 dollars, would be a substantial contribution. What really would it go for? If you look at the Red Cross in 2005 the CEO alone made almost 600,000 dollars. Also none there would even hear about the IMT, and would really be a lot more effective in helping build the organization. I'm not saying that giving money to charities does absolutely no good. You could give for example money to help keep music in the schools or help a child in a third world country. We've all seen these types of ads before. Problem how much does it really help in the big picture? You might help some child in Africa be able to survive, but thousands more will die everyday. Also look at how it affects the rich, Bill Gates may give a billion to charity (which he writes off on taxes of course) and a lot of people think "what a great guy" but really what is a billion to a guy who is net worth around 50 billion?

So for me I try to focus on the big picture, and ending the root problem.. capitalism and building socialism. I think the IMT is the best solution for that aim. So I'd give my money to help with the overthrow of capitalism. With that there would be no more Katrinas, Haitis, war or poverty. Hope I'm making sense, again it's your choice where you give your money to. I'm just telling you my thoughts :)