Is Patriotism nothing but an accepted form of Nationalism?

[Christopher Hill]

Many people are hated and considered anti-American merely for not being patriots, but the truth is that Patriotism is nothing but an accepted form of Nationalism. And What is Nationalism? Nationalism is nothing but the exclusion of those which a person deems inferior while exalting the status of the "superior", which are merely those which share certain characteristics in common with what they see as the nations "Ideal", which is merely what is closest to the image of those deciding on what constitutes this national "ideal". But all it really consists of is a terrible manifestation of the ignorantly racist attitudes derived from the Xenophobia of ages past. So cannot we see that no people are superior to any other and that we are all merely people? Do we not put way to much emphasis on the differences of other cultures - often negatively than what we share? Most people these days have some warped patriotic view and believe we should (Not my words so please edit if you wish) "Nuke those ragheads" Cannot they see that the people they are targeting are not the enemy and that many people who they hate for being "terrorists" are being forced to do such things out of fear and manipulation? (Which in itself is similar to the way most corporations, groups, and even governments works)  It just seems hypocritical that we claim to be a free "nation" and leader of the free world yet we are chained by our own shallow perceptions against our fellow human beings.

[Paula Marx]

No way. Communists can also be patriots. Nationalism is the less radical way of nazism - nationalists found themselves superior, as you said, and patriots have nothing against other nations and races. They just love their homeland(s).
But when you talk about America, it's the other story - Americans are immigrants and they have no culture. They are just (most of them) primitive capitalists who have nothing to do with America. They just look for their own profit. That's why people move to America.

[Christopher Hill]

Yet we already know that Patriotism leads to Social Chauvinism and the downplaying of the goal of internationalism, what do you have to say of this problem? Do you believe that there is any real difference rather than perhaps one of substance, of the extent of the nationalistic feelings the people feel?

[Paula Marx]

It may be hard to differ patriots from nationalists when it comes to "normal" people, but it's not impossible. The world's biggest problem is primitivism.
I don't think there's need to look for another difference between that than - substance.

[JJM 777]

You can love a region, say Hawaii for example, so warm and nice. But what if too many people globally love the same place? Should the locally born people have priority right to citizenship, environment, natural resources etc. of the region where they were born? That is hereditary Capitalism in a way.

American patriotism is even more paradoxal, because it never was "their country" to begin with. Unless you are talking about American Indians.

Also Jewish settlers in the West Bank "love their country", but they have a strange understanding of what is their country anyway.

[Kevin Nantz]

As a Marxist I have no illusions about being patriotic about a government that doesn't represent me. But I am proud of the culture of where I live, being from Philadelphia I have an affinity for Cheesesteaks and colloquialisms such as the question jaeetyet (did you eat yet)? I am not saying that the culture of Philadelphia is superior of any other place, (maybe besides Pittsburgh)( just kidding) or any other places culture is better than any other place. There is no such thing as a uncultured place, there are just different cultures. Though I prefer Philadelphian culture because I am the most comfortable there, I know there is no such thing as a superior culture, unless Pittsburgh is in the conversation.

[GreekMarxist]

i think that patriotism is not something to be resented, as it is essentially an appreciation of ones roots and 'fatherland'. Nationalism and exclusion is where the problems lie, but respect for ones home does not necessarily mean other nations are seen as inferior, that is like arguing that loving and respecting ones parents is to disregard and demean all others.

[P.O.U.M]

As a Marxist I have no illusions about being patriotic about a government that doesn't represent me. But I am proud of the culture of where I live, being from Philadelphia I have an affinity for Cheesesteaks and colloquialisms such as the question jaeetyet (did you eat yet)? I am not saying that the culture of Philadelphia is superior of any other place, (maybe besides Pittsburgh)( just kidding) or any other places culture is better than any other place. There is no such thing as a uncultured place, there are just different cultures. Though I prefer Philadelphian culture because I am the most comfortable there, I know there is no such thing as a superior culture, unless Pittsburgh is in the conversation.

This I agree with.

As I see it, there is patriotism, 9/11 patriotism, and nationalism.

9/11 patriotism is "America love it or leave it." As in, if you disagree with the government your supporting the terrorists. Which is absurd rhetoric used by ignorant people. America was founded on the basis of democracy and freedom of... blah blah blah, you know the rest. So the love it or leave it is a contradictory statement.

Nationalism is the "my country is the greatest." Expel foreigners. They are ruining the country so forth and so forth. The we are the best mentality.

And good ol' patriotism. Am I the only one who cheered for their country in the Olympics? I sure as hell was cheering for my hockey team to beat Canada for the gold (I also was secretly rooting for Canada, they had some of my players[NHL]). But that's a tournament based on good sportsmanship. I love my country. It has it's assholes. What country doesn't? I love the people, the culture, the environment. Living in Los Angeles, I love it. I wouldn't change it for the life of me. But that's where I grew up. It's my favorite. I'm lucky enough to be born here. And the French Dip originated here! (Eat it philly cheese suck). Is all this trivial? Hell yes it is. But that's what patriotism should be, enjoying the trivialities without taking them serious. No one culture is better than the next. (Unless your talking about Northern California, they smell).

*Blue indicates light hearted jests.

[jaycm610]

This is from Mao's littel red book, dealing with the subject of patriotism and internationalism:

"Can a Communist, who is an internationalist, at the same time be a patriot? We hold that he not only can be but also must be. The specific content of patriotism is determined by historical conditions. There is the "patriotism" of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler, and there is our patriotism. Communists must resolutely oppose the "patriotism" of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler. The Communists of Japan and Germany are defeatists with regard to the wars being waged by their countries. To bring about the defeat of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler by every possible means is in the interests of the Japanese and the German people, and the more complete the defeat the better.... For the wars launched by the Japanese aggressors and Hitler are harming the people at home as well as the people of the world. China's case, however, is different, because she is the victim of aggression. Chinese Communists must therefore combine patriotism with internationalism. We are at once internationalists and patriots, and our slogan is, "Fight to defend the motherland against the aggressors." For us defeatism is a crime and to strive for victory in the War of Resistance is an inescapable duty. For only by fighting in defense of the motherland can we defeat the aggressors and achieve national liberation. And only by achieving national liberation will it be possible for the proletariat and other working people to achieve their own emancipation. The victory of China and the defeat of the invading imperialists will help the people of other countries. Thus in wars of national liberation patriotism is applied internationalism. "

[Paula Marx]

Mao? He wasn't even a real communist.
No communism was reached in practice.

[P.O.U.M]

Paula Marx, yes and yes.

And Mao. Ohhhhhh Mao. What are defeastists?

I want to know how the German communists are defeatists with regards to the war being waged.

And Mao talks about internationalism.

[roxannpark]

i believe  nationalism is just a feeling and sympathy towards the nation while patriotism refers to someone who dont just feel for the country but also do necessary things for the country; one who will risk life for the benefit of the country.

[china123]

I actually really enjoy reading your blog. Glad you’re sticking around! And I must say, I absolutely love the title of
 your blog .

[Avery001]

this conversation can go really long .
i think yes it is the accepted form of nationalism . example PAKISTAN . thorugh study on PAKISTAN can clear your quries .

[Paula Marx]

this conversation can go really long .
i think yes it is the accepted form of nationalism . example PAKISTAN . thorugh study on PAKISTAN can clear your quries .

Perceptions of patriotism are different, so are in Pakistan and every other country. You can't generalize because there are no two same minds which will understand one fact the same. Everything is based upon that fact.