Islam and Sharia (or any other theocracy) & other obstacles

[gsamson]

What would be the best way to overcome the fundamental religious groups that so strongly believe in theocratic rule (i.e. sharia law) that they would rather die than adopt any other type of government? Additionally, they would die trying to violently convert the rest of the world to their ideology. For the most part, I'm speaking of fundamental Islam, since I cannot think of any other significant and current theocratic movements. In the last century, there have been many acts of aggression and violence against socialism or communism. In fact, the fundamental Islamists did not focus heavily on targeting the West until the defeat of the USSR in Afghanistan.

Another obstacle that comes to mind are conservative or libertarian states (in the US)  like Texas. I have lived in Texas, and I don't think they would join in without overwhelming force.

[Lech]

The basic thing is education. People usually cling to ideals like that because that is all they know. Though it is a slow and gradual process, attitudes like the ones you described can be changed by a nudge in a different direction.

[Faceless]

You are right, the fundamentalists were originally produced by the Zia dictatorship in Pakistan in cahoots with the United States to fight communists and socialists. The problem is that the fundamentalists and their backers in the Pakistani state have become so entangled with the opium trade in Afghanistan and the blackmarket that they have come into conflict with their old masters. Islamic fundamentalism is the ideology of corrupt elements in the Pakistani/Afghan state and of warlords who rest on extreme backwardness in the tribal areas. Get rid of the backwardness and the system which perpetuates backwardness and you'll have solved the problem

Lech is right, a lot of it has to do with education. Q: Who is providing education to kids that grow up to become Islamic fundamentalists? A: The maddrassas - religious schools that take in really poor kids and give them food and clothes and in exchange they wash their brains with fundamentalist crap. Take away poverty, give kids a good education and you undercut the maddrassas. On the basis of capitalism people don't even get electricity and affordable food in Pakistan let alone a decent education for their kids. Likewise, if something can be offered to the poor peasants in the tribal regions that their leaders - the imams, the landlords and so on - can't offer, the local fundamentalist oligarchs will find themselves resting on a vacuum. Under capitalism no one can offer land, cheap credit etc to the peasants - these things belong to the landlords and the banks. Under socialism though they could be offered very real benefits.

[fire_mat99]

Look at the US and Europe in the old days burning at the stake ,tourture ,hanging ,converting and crusade so backwardness .

The more the country is industrise the less religious and less backwardness .In Europe it is almot atheist and so sectarian.The US was built on god we trust in the constitution of bill of rights and desperation of church and state but not god.In the bill of rights freedom of religion and discrimination of religion .

But over the past yaers religion christian has hijack the government and schools .If you not christian you not getting in power not what the  law is saying but people would not vote atheist in power or support sectarian.

On the social side the US is not that different than Iran.It will not be  long to the US starts to hang or stone people to death like Iran.Even Netherlands the most sectarian and liberal country in world in moving away from this idea and slowing getting more conservative.

There is growing movement in Iran and Palestine that would love to see the US and Israel gone.One just look at the rockets Iran is giving to Palestine to use to attack Israel  this past weak.

Even China and South America are getting more conservative.I believe the problem is lack of industrise countries and poverty why people go on a religious to the extreme.

[fire_mat99]

 

The basic thing is education. People usually cling to ideals like that because that is all they know. Though it is a slow and gradual process, attitudes like the ones you described can be changed by a nudge in a different direction.

That is okay for kids but not 10 or 15 years of brainwashing.And faith is not reason it is a belief .People believe in god do not apply logic or scientific it is faith .There are verry very smart doctors , scientists ,philosophers and economics people so on who believe in god .Than there are verry very smart doctors , scientists ,philosophers and economics people so on who do not  believe in god .

Even Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking believe in god .If anyone it is more Astro physics do not believe in god .

But to believe in god  is faith not  logic or scientific .On less you a agnostic than logic or scientific may be seak out by the person who is agnostic who will like to know if god is real or not.

You need to look at the religion prism you got  strong atheist ,weak atheist ,agnostic  ,religious weak ,religious strong and fundamental religious .Most fundamental religious  is from over zealous religious stong gone bad.I'm Not saying all zealous religious people are bad ,  but zealous religious seems to trigger fundamental religious .

[allpeopleunite]

Normally I would say that religious ferocity is the product of oppression and poverty, however in places like Dallas, Riyadh, Dubai, crushing poverty is hardly a huge problem and the middle and bourgeoisie seem to be more religious and conservative than the normal workers and peasants and nomads.

On the other hand you can look at Palestine where once it was a secular nation of Arabs whereas now fundamentalism is popular in Gaza. That surely is the product of oppression and poverty.

And what of Pakistan, where even in the NWFP the secular Awami league is most popular as opposed to the funadmentalists of the region

Not drawing any conclusions just putting stuff out there

[Lech]

Normally I would say that religious ferocity is the product of oppression and poverty, however in places like Dallas, Riyadh, Dubai, crushing poverty is hardly a huge problem and the middle and bourgeoisie seem to be more religious and conservative than the normal workers and peasants and nomads.

I couldn't agree more with that. I think that is mostly because 1) the middle class like to use religion to place themselves above workers 2) they want justification for their prosperity i.e. "I'm successful because it is God's will" and 3) because they feel like they should be faithful to ensure that they have more than others.

Thats mostly what I think.

[Universal]

All you have to do is to slowly educate the youth (because youth is the future) of the country and you will, at a gardual pace, change the government. Because without the youth, the country would die so the ideologists that cling to religious governments cant just keep killing the youth without Killing themselves (aka their society).

[brayen]

hey i thing i can replyon this cauze i'm from lebanon part from the arabic/islamic world...before 1990  there was no  real islam fanatic...islamic people have probleme with the USA...they use there old ideology just for defending themself...so of course they need a new education but also they need help in there war against imperialism from a big communist power like the USSR...

[JJM 777]

What would be the best way to overcome the fundamental religious groups that so strongly believe in theocratic rule (i.e. sharia law) that they would rather die than adopt any other type of government?

The best way with strict religious fundamentalism is to simply ignore them and build a society without paying any attention to them and without accepting any of their claims which are contrary to the happiness of the general population. (Not all religious claims are contrary to the happiness of people, but many such claims are, especially in Islam.)

When time goes by, and the current or next generation of these religious fundies sees what is the quality of life inside their own belief system compared to ourpolitical system, some of them will make conclusions and change some of their detrimental beliefs. Some others will never change their beliefs: letting them rot through life in their autonomous and boring existence is better than having them protesting and terrorising everything what a more neutral Socialist society is trying to achieve.