Why the lack of interest in Africa?

[orwellcommie]

I noticed that this topic area seems to be one of the least visited when it comes to the ongoing discussion of Marxism and the spread of international socialism.  Why is it the continent of Africa seems to get overlooked when it comes to international Socialism?  This seems to be some what short sited and perhaps even self defeating.  Imperialists and colonialists have long exploited the continent of africa to great effect one would think that were the movement for international Socialism to prevail that this part of the world would be the front line in that battle.  I'd love to hear some feedback on this issue. 

[caesarscook]

Agreed.  To be fair, this board is not as active as it should be overall, but your point is well taken.  To speak for myself, I honestly don't know a whole hell of a lot about Africa, which is not saying anything positive about me.  We could perhaps discuss the history of the anti-apartheid struggle in South Africa or perhaps the latest article on Nigeria on marxist.com  I would be up for expanding my knowledge of the class struggle on the African continent, because your point is well taken.  There is not enough discussion on this topic, comrade.

[orwellcommie]

Well, I know that there has been much going on when it comes to the struggle for self determination among most african nations when it comes to the legacy that most african nations endured during the periods where most has onces been colonies of european nations.  It seems to me that what the world needs more of is competition in leadership inovation where social engineering is concerned, marxism has long provided that alternative that much of the world sorely needs, and I personally would like move knowledge on the subject spead to people's of africa aswell as across the world.  Wouldn't you agree comrads?

[caesarscook]

I agree fully that the working class of Africa, just as the rest of the world working class, would be well served by a detailed study of the seminal works of Marxism.  I, personally, wish I knew more about the economic, political, and social history of Africa, i.e. a sort of materialist history of say the Congo or Somolia or the Zulu people or basically anything.  This is a serious weak point in my knowledge of history.  If you know anything, or know of a Marxist treatment of this, I would love to read it and discuss it with you comrade.  I think you and I and all the other comrades on the board could benefit from such a discussion.  This would be a good starting point for me, because if we are going to be discussing this, I need to know something about what we're talking about.

[P.O.U.M]

Despite a few recent articles on a few African countries on IDOM, I think we could all use a good lesson on Africa's history. Except for a few things here and there such as Rwanda, South Africa and a few other minor countries you hear minor tidbits from within the last years (I personally cant put a time frame, decade or so?). I think thats how bad Africa is treated. Africa's history isnt discussed much. Other than Egypt. However that was Africa thousands of years ago and only one minor seciotn.

[caesarscook]

Despite a few recent articles on a few African countries on IDOM, I think we could all use a good lesson on Africa's history. Except for a few things here and there such as Rwanda, South Africa and a few other minor countries you hear minor tidbits from within the last years (I personally cant put a time frame, decade or so?). I think thats how bad Africa is treated. Africa's history isnt discussed much. Other than Egypt. However that was Africa thousands of years ago and only one minor seciotn.

I agree fully.  I would like to read a detailed theoretical treatment of Africa's history (and like you said, we don't mean simply the last 20 years).  I know that Jared Diamond discusses a bit the reasons why agriculture was slow to develop in Africa from a materialist perspective in his Guns, Germs, and Steel, namely that its nearly impossible to domesticate most of the animals in Africa, but his perspective is not really Marxist, i.e. while geographic and climatic factors play an important and even decisive role in pre-class society, as Marxists, we understand that the ultimate gauge of progress is the ability to progressively transform nature (the means by which this transformation takes place is of course the labor process), to bend it to human will, what Marxists call the war against Nature.  So, the further you go along the line of human history, the more control we gain over our "natural" condition through the development of the means of production, less relevant explanations like geography and climate become.  So, the further Diamond goes in history, through slave societies, feudalism, and finally capitalism, the less satisfying his explanation becomes, but I think, until someone recommends a good Marxist treatment of the subject, it seems to me like the geographic and climatic explanation can help us explain why much of Africa remained in a tribal state, which left it prone to domination by external forces up through the ages. 

I like this explanation, because it takes off the table all the old reactionary, racist explanations for African "backwardness" and so forth, because no matter what color of the skin of the people in Africa, they weren't going to be domesticating lions any time soon.  That said, if any of the comrades have an actual Marxist materialist history of Africa, I would love to read it.  Recommendations welcome. 

Also, does anyone know anything about a supposed kingdom or empire that was supposed to have covered Africa in the distant past.  Some black nationalists, whom we work closely with in our Hands Off Venezuela work locally, informed me of this, and I can neither confirm nor deny it.  I know nothing concrete about this and if it were true, it would seem to fly in the face of my current conception of African history.  In approaching the question, I think we would need to keep in mind that the group putting forward this idea has a stake in this claim, as it furthers the cause of Pan-Africanism, but that's not the criteria, evidence is the criteria.  Does anyone know anything about this?  Is there evidence for such a claim?

[ckaihatsu]

A People's History of the World
http://www.istendency.net/node/view/7

(see part 3)

[Otter]

Agreed.  To be fair, this board is not as active as it should be overall, but your point is well taken.  To speak for myself, I honestly don't know a whole hell of a lot about Africa, which is not saying anything positive about me.  We could perhaps discuss the history of the anti-apartheid struggle in South Africa or perhaps the latest article on Nigeria on marxist.com  I would be up for expanding my knowledge of the class struggle on the African continent, because your point is well taken.  There is not enough discussion on this topic, comrade.

On the subject of South Africa...(which you mentioned above)

As you said, the anti-apartheid struggle of the blacks of South Africa was very socialist-influenced. Forexample, Nelson Mandela and was given help from several revolutionary comrades in the Communist Party of South Africa on more than one occation. The government that arose after the fall of Apartheid, did also have very close ties to both CPSA and the Communist Party of Cuba. However, in the years after the fall of Apartheid, the Republic of SA has grown equally capitalistic as the old rascist regime. In the apartheid days, the poorest amongst the blacks were put in concentration camp like areas called "Townships". One of the things the new government promised, was to dissolve these camps. This has not happened.

It should also be noted that SA-governemnt of sitting president Thabo Mbeki, has managed to effectively deny the fact that the HIV/AIDs crisis long ago reached SA. This has probably caused the lives of a whole generation of people within and otuside the Townships. The school system hasn't improved either, with separate schools for whites and blacks, and corruption is a wll known way of securing a monthly income, for nearly all government officials.

During the 80s Apartheid government, the SA also initiated projects for development of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction. The nuclear weaponry was dismantled in the 1990sm while the other two mass destruction projects seemnigly disappeared from record. Therefore, there is no reason to think otherwise that SA of today can be a powerfull (though imperialistic) mass destruction strikeforce.

I've been there, it's certainly room for another Red October.

Otter

[Empiricist]

The countries in Africa are probably the furtherest from Socialism then other countries around the world and many communists and socialists would like to see more countries become socialist or communist as quickly as possible and will look for fast result.

Africa would take alot more work and time compare to other countries to convert it to socialism, let alone communism

[Universal]

True,the Continent itself is overlooked, and this would create a great place for us to cultivate ourself. I think that Africa is screaming for socialism and communism and that we should begin to introduce ourself to the old continent.
Also, the reason Africa has been overlooked is because thats all we hear about i think, how bad Africa is and how much it needs help. So why should we not begin installing ourself there?

[JJM 777]

One simple reason why Africa might be less discussed than other parts of the world, is the fact that many parts of Africa don't have a good Internet connection yet, people are poor and Internet connections are slow and expensive.

Quite surprising that southern Africa was connected to the global Internet only a month or two ago (!), before this they have been using expensive wireless satellite links to connect to the Internet with slow bandwidth.

So Africans generally surf less on Internet, which means that there will be fewer local activists chatting online about their local problems. Also in a situation where Internet connection is expensive, it will be the Capitalists rather than Socialists who will first have money to start surfing online.

[Christopher Hill]

Much of it I believe has to do with the tribal division of the continent, the people have yet to be successfully united and so people do not wish to try it.. Look at Ernesto Guevara's attempts in the Congo which failed due to these said divides and due to the petty squabbles of the leadership. While the Continent shows much potential I am not sure if it is ready.. While Russia and China were backwards countries, this offset is small in comparison to that of the peoples of Africa.. As has been hypothesized the rise of the Bureaucracy in China and the USSR was due to the backwardness of the countries.. Which  is why I believe that Africa will likely be the final land to be freed by Communism, first the advanced countries must succeed.. So that the international effects can be extended to everywhere.

[Scorpion]

That's true - somethings are so overlooked that are extremely important to the progress of Marxist thought in that area; for example the legacy of Thomas Sankara who in a few years had set up stable progressive socialist republic free of neo-colonialism that was reduced to rubble by imperialist blood sucking after he was brutally assassinated by the French and C.I.A while coup reactionary leaders replaced him - they are still in power and the whole event is almost non-existent even when it's at par with the Chilean 9/11 probably of more significance considering the giant strides the socialist state Sankara and the people of Burkina Faso had set up at such a pace.