So bush wins.

[????]

.........


If I say it will take a while.

[DawnOLiberation]

i can't even imagine what would happen during next 4 years
why do american people vote for the republicans while all the people around the world know that republicans make wars?
maybe majority of american people believe they need 'Mighty US'

[ScottMcR]

i think bush won prety much through the fear and selfishness prevailant in the minds of the majority ( i say majority simply because he DID win ) of the american people.

but just a thought.... how do you think it will influence future elections in your own countries around the world? i think a lot of people in the UK will now not vote for labour simply because Blair has such close ties with Bush and they'll want to distance from that.

frightened people are so bloody easy to control... mass media is a damn circus

comradely

scott

[Lutraphobe]

In the US no one is really sure what happened; most people think he won because he focused on issues like gay marriage that divide people in odd ways-- in America a lot of poor people will vote for a republican, even though they know he's the worse candidate, as long as he opposes gay marriage and is a radical christian.

[Daymare17]

I think it's too simple to focus on the "fear and selfishness of Americans" or something similar. You have to keep in mind 2 things:

1) Kerry's suckiness

2) The intense propaganda that the US population lives under. It's unlike anything in Europe. Most Republican voters actually still believe that there were WMDs in Iraq and that Saddam engineered 9/11. Two American foreign exchange students here, who used to vote Republican, saw the real face of US imperialism in the media, and immediately became very radical, almost revolutionary.

[Bobajip]

I think the points by Daymere17 are spot on.

I've seen an instance similar of american students ( fairly middle class at that) become completly radicalised onece they are free of the US media propaganda and start to see it from the perspective of the rest of the world.

The American education system is also woefully weak on things like geography and world history.

I heard a talk by a us university teacher know based in London - when he was in the US he would give his students a map test in his first class and over 80% would fail - he taught International politics!!

What will be interseting now of course is the economic climate.

All ready the Dollar has fallen. and there is lots of media discussion of the US budget deficiet (in the UK media anyway)

Does anybody have any thoughts on this?

Anyone from the US - is this being discussed there or is it being down playe dor ignored by the media?

bobajip

[Volkov]

Bush may have won, but if Kerry did, there would not be any real difference;  they may both have some different stances and tactics here and there, but they have one fixed goal:  the vangaurding of Bourgeoisie interests, politics, power, culture, etc.  Either way, the Proletariat is confined to a living hell, whether it be Democrat or Republican.

Why are you guys complaining about Bush's victory, for that would not really make much of a difference?  Have you not analyzed the voting system and US propaganda?  Have you not read any recent articles on marxist.com? :confused:

[P.O.U.M]

There is a dimes worth of difference if anything at all between the two. On foriegn policy it would be asking too much to find a difference between the two. But on domestic issues, there could be a difference. Things that could affect me, such as abortion. Now I cant get pregnant but my girlfriend sure as hell can. And if I cant get an abortion (if needed) because of these new religious freaks...

Though I believe that fear has a very strong place in why we have Bush again. Plus, this is probably just me but i think Flordia along with Ohio was rigged again... But we Americans are trampled with the Republican propaganda machine. We are made to fear everything. Terrorists, the liberal pussy democrats, GOD, and even on local news shows we are made to fear our own nieghborhoods. So the obvios choice is the good strong God-fearing Repubicans who crack down on criminals and the terrorists.

I remember watching an interview on the tv with some random lady. And she said something along the lines that if you vote Republican you vote for God. So if you vote otherwise, you go to hell. Now for the god fearing christians, what higher authority is there than god and eternal damnition. And this country is still very much religious, hence Bush's campaigning for good christian morals.

[Daymare17]

Originally posted by P.O.U.M
And this country is still very much religious, hence Bush's campaigning for good christian morals. [/B]

Not to mention family values :(

[P.O.U.M]

- Powerful and continuing nationalism

- Disdain for human rights

- Identification of enemis/scapegoats as a unifying cause

- Supremacy of the military

- Rampant sexism

- Controlled mass media

- Obsession with national secruity

- Religion and government are interwined

- Corporate power is protected

- Labor power is suppressed

- Disdain for intellectuals and the arts

- Obsession with crime and punishment

- Rampant cronyism and corruption

- Fraudulent elections

I saw this on a shirt. It was supposedly made by someone who has studied fascism under Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco. I think its safe to say that America is involved in every point above.

[mrbojangles]

well, according to greg pallast, kerry won.

[P.O.U.M]

Hahaha. I so called it. I knew Ohio was gonna do something to screw with the election.

I also had this hunch it would be Palast figuring this out once again.

[????]

What P.O.U.M said is right on about why bush got 4 more years. I mean war more years, even though kerry would not been a huge change. Soical conservitism had a impact on bush's victory.

[Daymare17]

Originally posted by P.O.U.M
- Powerful and continuing nationalism

- Disdain for human rights

- Identification of enemis/scapegoats as a unifying cause

- Supremacy of the military

- Rampant sexism

- Controlled mass media

- Obsession with national secruity

- Religion and government are interwined

- Corporate power is protected

- Labor power is suppressed

- Disdain for intellectuals and the arts

- Obsession with crime and punishment

- Rampant cronyism and corruption

- Fraudulent elections

I saw this on a shirt. It was supposedly made by someone who has studied fascism under Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco. I think its safe to say that America is involved in every point above.

Hmm, yes, all this is true. However America is not fascism, not even close. It's not even Bonapartism. Bonapartism means direct state-apparatus rule. Fascism, however, is a special form of bourgeois rule, where finance capital mobilises the frenzied petty bourgeoisie and the lumpenproletariat against the workers. The German bourgeoisie in 1930s couldn't crush the powerful proletariat on their own, they needed mass forces which only Hitler could give them. That's the difference.

Fascism in America can only come about if all the rednecks, parts of the city gangs, and the petty bourgeois, say to themselves: yes, we must crush the working class with ruthless violence, yes, we must have a totalitarian dictatorship! And even then, they would have to conquer the powerful American proletariat first. I don't think we disagree that America is very far from that!

The US is just a normal bourgeois democracy with a few extra limitations on rights.

[commie_kg]

As has already been said, the media's constant propagation of "moral family values" had a huge impact on this election. This country is in a state of extreme regression socially. The fact that the gay marriage ban passed in all 11 proposed states shows just how "moral" things have become.

And the right slings mud at us for discussing these things. "You must be anti-democracy!" "The people have spoken! Just shut up lefty!" It's a sick place to be at the moment.