Is the USA turning Fascist?

[Volkov]

Vladimir Ilyich Lenin once said, "Fascism is Captialism in decay."  This makes me wonder if the US is going down the path of Fascism, especially with the Patriot Act.  Let us think, comrades:  When the economies of Germany and Italy were in bad shape, Captialist economies, they ended up being ruled by Fascist dictators that invaded other nations to gain economic power.  The economy of the US is not doing well because the Republican policy of giving breaks to the rich does not work.  Bush has taken Iraq for its oil resources, and he wants to take Syria to gain more ground in the middle East.  He is gaining lots of support with his reductions of freedoms and his imperilaist invasions, just like how Hitler got support.  This does not look good, for Fascism is very bad.  Yet, again, the lack of freedoms and bad economy may pave way for a US Socialist revolution.

What do you people think of this situation?

[turnoviseous]

Originally posted by Volkov
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin once said, "Fascism is Captialism in decay."  This makes me wonder if the US is going down the path of Fascism, especially with the Patriot Act.  Let us think, comrades:  When the economies of Germany and Italy were in bad shape, Captialist economies, they ended up being ruled by Fascist dictators that invaded other nations to gain economic power.  The economy of the US is not doing well because the Republican policy of giving breaks to the rich does not work.  Bush has taken Iraq for its oil resources, and he wants to take Syria to gain more ground in the middle East.  He is gaining lots of support with his reductions of freedoms and his imperilaist invasions, just like how Hitler got support.  This does not look good, for Fascism is very bad.  Yet, again, the lack of freedoms and bad economy may pave way for a US Socialist revolution.

What do you people think of this situation?

I don´t know, but have you checked Trotsky´s article "Fascism - what it is and how to fight it?"? You can get a lot of answers on this issue there.

The main thing is that fascism can´t happen just like that. First, as you said, there must be a crisis. But a mere crisis is only a potential for fascism. The main condition for fascism to happen are disillusioned middle classes, which look for a way forward from the crisis, and if working class movement is not strong enough to drag middle classes with it, then it is highly probable that a bourgeois democracy will be destroyed by a capitalist supported clique dictatorship which bases on mass movement of middle class, which can then also drag some part of working class in it. But this mass base support fastly deteriorates and we have a classic bonapartist dictatorship, tho´ in crisis.

Anyway, check out Trotsky´s article.

[Volkov]

Originally posted by turnoviseous
I don´t know, but have you checked Trotsky´s article "Fascism - what it is and how to fight it?"? You can get a lot of answers on this issue there.

The main thing is that fascism can´t happen just like that. First, as you said, there must be a crisis. But a mere crisis is only a potential for fascism. The main condition for fascism to happen are disillusioned middle classes, which look for a way forward from the crisis, and if working class movement is not strong enough to drag middle classes with it, then it is highly probable that a bourgeois democracy will be destroyed by a capitalist supported clique dictatorship which bases on mass movement of middle class, which can then also drag some part of working class in it. But this mass base support fastly deteriorates and we have a classic bonapartist dictatorship, tho´ in crisis.

Anyway, check out Trotsky´s article.

Do you know of a specific URL for the article;  I don't like searching through huge archives for things all the time.  I will try to look for it at the moment.

[turnoviseous]

OK

[Volkov]

Originally posted by turnoviseous
OK

I am working on reading it.  It is some good stuff.  The reading will take awhile because I don't have an Internet-compatiable PC at my house, and because I can only use the Internet at my school on these POS Macs.

[jpjones]

I will play devil's advocate here, and ask what the proposed Domestic Security Enhancement Act would mean?

Patriot II

JPJ

[Universal]

Now i live in the US and have noticed a growing power of facism. But its not just that, out of all i will give you all political partys in power from most powerful to least.
Democratic (libral)
Republican (imperialist)

So it seems that facism is only a minority still in my country, but IS GROWING. Still, we are a largely libral country and have seen only the distruction of morals, ethics, and religion in my country. This is why i'm getting out of this country as soon as possible

[Stevve]

Universa,l what morals and ethics are being destroyed? And isn't the loss of organized religion a good thing as religious institutions usually promote conservativism.The fact that America even proposed the idea of legalizing weed is progressive, though the banning of Gay marriage in some states is definately a setback.


And I just realised you're not American(maybe?), just the topic of it being about America I assumed.

[fire_mat99]

Well Fascism the goveremt tells business what to do has in the US has of now the goveremt suckers up to the rich and business and spits on the poor.So for fascism the goveremt will have to be like CEO's and tell business what to do and like big goverment and control.

Most Americans views are well in most countries, the government takes tax money from the people. This is supposed to be used to help the people. But most Americans think even the government has no right to tax people, and think that the government should not tax a lot.And think people can take care of the poor without the government. They believe that people should pay for the things and believe government should only have police and judges to make sure people obey laws and an army to make sure no one attacks the country.They believe in free-market and small goverment and believe separation of church and state is bad. Also strong on the old ways than the new ways.Very moral base ,traditions ,family and small goverment .

The US is very conservative well the goverment is very neoconservative.

[Universal]

"And isn't the loss of organized religion a good thing as religious institutions usually promote conservativism."

Not true, Catholic and Cristian institutions are very good at instilling values in youth. In fact, religious institutions are very liberal in America. i know, I took a tour at Holy Cross Collage, a Catholic institution, and looked at their student voting records and found that 87% voted for the Democratic party. Religious institutions also are necessary because, tell me, what ethical and moral code does atheism teach us? To me, atheists are weak, Godless people who fear religion because science cannot prove anything, it can only disprove things.

[Faceless]

Universal, you do know that the overwhelming majority of people who post on these boards are atheists? If you think we're weak, amoral people who fear religion, perhaps you should be posting elsewhere? To answer your question however, it is not god OR atheism which teaches us our "ethical and moral code" but LIFE ITSELF. All those commandments in the bible? They were learnt through trial and error. If people regularly go around killing, stealing, committing adultery, lying and ignoring the accepted social conventions, then society, the family, the state and all the social organisations we require to happily coexist would fall apart!! The only difference between science and religion is that science offers a common sense explanation for morality rooted in the real world whereas religion detaches morality from its roots in the real world and tries to explain it as being the product of some higher being.

If religious institutions are "liberal" in America, can I ask what the term "Bible Belt" refers to? Religion is the last refuge of reactionaries. When everything in the real world points to complete disintegration of the established order, when people begin to reject the moral right of the capitalist class to rule, what else can they do except pray to a higher being to save them? The Catholic church was the bastion of Spanish fascism and in Russia the Black Hundred movement was avowedly Christian. I hardly think I need to explain what values the Iranian government instils in its youths - I imagine obedience is pretty high up the list though!

By the way, if you do not believe that science has proved anything, be careful the next time you switch on your computer :-P

[Christopher Hill]

To me it seems that many Americans (Mostly  WASPs)  these days seem to believe all people who have a different skin color or religion wish to destroy them and their way of life.. And so strive to destroy everyone else.. This coupled with rampant Patriotic Nationalism is indeed concerning, but it seems that it may be more an issue of Religious fascism than of any particular "Racial fascism", as far as I have seen it has effected people of all "Nationalities" while it is of course concentrated in the Conservative population (effecting mostly Republicans, and Libertarians, while not at all absent from the Democrats)