I am laughing so my spleen comes out my nose.

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

Hehe, I think most people would have problems understanding their thing, it seems to be some pseudoreligios movement?

[P.O.U.M]

Their leader Sid, to put it bluntly is an attention whore. Thats all he is. Hes a smart guy, but he seems to swtich postitions as easily as a flip of a coin.

Whats's really interesting is Sid can easily gather a crowd around him. He apparanltly has dedicated followers to his spiritual socialism. But during his Trotskyist Labor League (TLL) days he was very charasmatic and able to get new memebers quite easily. Though it didnt last.

Im sad to say I was one of the founding members of the TLL too... I contacted the WIL, when Sid was still in the organization, and talked to him about Marxism. Then months passed and apparantly some rift opened ip bewtween Sid and the CC. Sid being the only contact I knew I sided with him. Which by far and large, led to serveral political mistakes, ultimatly leading to TLL.

My apologies for the gross misreprentation of marxism I got confused with... Im gonna leave it at this, for I cant use a word that the FCC would approve of.

[ckaihatsu]

Hmmmm, Marxism in the Age of Aquarius? This does seem spirited, but I'm not going to wait for the mothership or drink the Kool-Aid...! <grin>

First, here's the disclaimer: The following is not meant to be an exhaustive study of the material of this posting -- it's strictly off-the-top-of-my-head.

> "[T]he capitalist class is of a more enlightened nature then the working class is."

Perhaps this is to say that the global policy of the ruling elite (bourgeoisie) is more unified in principle than most people would like to believe. Perhaps the use of the term 'enlightened' here means more-worldly, or with more of a hyper-informed, bird's-eye view of the world -- ?

In their defense of this group, at least they're anti-capitalist and not reformist.... I think we shouldn't be sectarian on this one -- their list of demands (at their MySpace page) is compatible with any other revolutionary's -- they're also for 9-11 truth and are anti-elitist.

The dialectic does *not* have four states, as far as I know.

A 'dialectic of the dialectic' is essentially their thesis, and it doesn't make any sense -- it's an add-on, an extra layer tacked on that doesn't contribute anything -- it's saying there are four polarities when in fact all you need is two, so the extraneous two poles opens up a false dichotomy thus leading right into dualism, or idealism. Note that the author posits a "dark" and unseen realm in addition to our own.

From what I can understand, it's either that, a false dichotomy, or else the author equates the 'Positive' to whatever is described *generally* -- "in unity" -- while the 'Negative' is the chain of *specific* events that can be described in general by the generality.

I myself describe 'spirit' -- materially -- as having a sense of the future, and/or firm plans of one's own for the future

Spirit can come from an individual's subjectivity, but at the macro -- or aggregate -- level we can also gauge the 'spirit of the times', or zeitgeist, which is wholly cultural and highly dependent on economics and the extent of production at a given point in time.

The author equates the dialectic with a linear equation, and this is an incorrect comparison -- the dialectic is *not* linear, it is complex. The dialectic has a mathematical analogue in complexity theory, or game theory, which involves inter-dependent variables. An abstract, graphic example of complexity is the generation of fractal images, which are created by the interaction of the real domain of numbers with the "imaginary" domain of numbers.

The author's use of "Production" and "Function" here may well correlate to Marx's use value and exchange value, respectively -- the author emphasizes our contemporary fetishization of exchange value, which is something that happens when your economy is dependent on finance instead of manufacturing. We see the emergence and predominance of service-sector jobs and culture during our ride down the economic downslope.


> "While class struggle is negating capitalism, castes will posate into place."

To make this statement accurate, I would change it to read "While class struggle can negate capitalism, castes will posate into place if that struggle does not advance."


> "The failure to acknowledge caste divisions from both Anarchists and Marxists groups are one of the major reasons that both movements will eventually fail humanity."

This itself is sectarian and misleading. Of course anti-capitalists of all stripes recognize caste divisions -- they exist due to the mixed and uneven development of capitalism around the world. That means that areas of feudal-, or caste-like conditions are mixed throughout more advanced conditions of free economics.


Chris







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[RedVanguard9]

Ok now he's really gone off the deep end;

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=327473165&blogID=365746047

Can anyone say Rip Off of Trotsky's Transitional Program apparently their name change is complete

www.myspace.com/prometheanworker

Anyways the part that made me laugh the most was this

"Leadership has always served itself and never the people. Never once have these revolutionary groups taught people how to simply quiet their mind and find inner calm. It's the capitalists who're more likely to use these methods. Of course they water them down severely lest their workers get too smart for their own good. Revolutionary organizations of the past millennium don't even do that. Usually, with them, it's read this and then learn to parrot the party line. There is never any emphasis placed on the individual and the betterment of the individual's consciousness as an individual. The reason for this could be blamed on the fact that the religion of most of these groups is Atheism. The other reason that could be cited is that they place very little emphasis on the individual's enlightenment."

The other part that was actually just generally funny was this

"Of course Anarchists are not immune from the problems of clique rule. Most Anarchist groups are run by a system of consensus in which all must agree before anything can get done. Well what ends up happening is that the best orators in the group will out argue the dissenters until they agree with the majority viewpoint. Then, what ends up happening, is you have "dictatorship of the orator".

I really like the "Dictatorship of The Orator" concept now thats some funny stuff right there its about the only thing i found interesting in the whole document...

 

[Volkov]

Holy crap.  These punkie-hippies are still spouting out all kinds of nonsense, which only gets worse and worse over time.  That Sid guy needs to find something better to do with his time than to post on the Internet while being high on LSD!

[RedVanguard9]

I doubt very much that guy is on LSD.  Their organization is so preachy about this natural hollistic lifestyle and meditation and so on.  I think more or less the dude is just your typical mystic nut job i find little difference between him and some self proclaimmed Hindu guru in India.  These type of people tend to be big time health nuts, into vitamins, acupuncture just all sorts of odd placebo type things.  Thus guy just needs to get off his crazy New Age trip don't know what sent him on such an extreme New Age trip but he's definately on that trip harder then Kurt Cobain was on Heroine.  Sometimes mysticism can be just as intoxicating as any drug you could name and we have the proof right here...

[ckaihatsu]

Never once have these revolutionary groups taught people how to simply quiet their mind and find inner calm. It's the capitalists who're more likely to use these methods.

Capitalists have quiet minds and inner calm -- ??!!!

Yeeeeaaaaahhhhhhhhh, *right* -- show me a mid-level manager who's not being sheared in half by pressures of work and home life and I'll show you a ticket to Shangri-La....

There is never any emphasis placed on the individual and the betterment of the individual's consciousness as an individual. The reason for this could be blamed on the fact that the religion of most of these groups is Atheism.

Whoa, I don't even know where to begin here -- first of all, politics has almost nothing to do with individuals -- if you want a private, "enlightened" life, stay the hell away from politics!!!    :- )

And since when is atheism a religion? At least with atheism I don't have to attend a service every freaking week and pretend to have a big, invisible best friend...(!!!)

I really like the "Dictatorship of The Orator" concept now thats some funny stuff right there its about the only thing i found interesting in the whole document...

That *is* smile-provoking...! Sounds like one of those Lederer books documenting how students distort course material.... "Dictatorship of the Orator", huh? -- sounds like the perfect definition of network TV...! (heh)

LSD for that guy would be a definite *improvement* in his life -- at least it'd get him out of that mysticism rut.... (yeesh!)

[RedVanguard9]

Capitalists have quiet minds and inner calm -- ??!!!

Yeeeeaaaaahhhhhhhhh, *right* -- show me a mid-level manager who's not being sheared in half by pressures of work and home life and I'll show you a ticket to Shangri-La....

I wonder if he wasn't refering to how some of the big corporations bring in Yoga instructors for their employees.  Also how some businesses bring in Feng Shui masters to Feng Shui their offices.  Of course Feng Shui itself came from the elites of Chinese society who didn't want their secret arts to reach the poor.  Big deal though its just arranging colors a certain way to effect people's brains we call that psychology nowadays...

Wasn't much for big invisible friends growing up though had parents that wanted me to go to Seven Day Aventist church.  At least they have a healthy diet but thats about the only good thing about them.

[RedVanguard9]

I'd rather be Spoon bending

[Remus]

Wow you guys really need a life to be over here discussing our organization like this.  You guys and your silly materialist notions of reality don't you realize there is nothing materialist about the dialectic?

Seriously lets get down to the point here which is when Marx divorced Idealism from Hegels ideas thats where he really messed things up.  If you guys would stick the idealism back in your philosphy you might break from the same old pseudo philosphy that leads the workers nowhere.  Also you might actually get somewhere from the people who want nothing to do with Marxist ideas people know there's more to existence then physical or materialist matter.  Matter is double sided Dark and Light and Marx had no clue Matter was double sided nor did Engels if they did maybe they wouldn't have come up with such a rigid doctrine.

Lets say what you guys really are your Athieocratic and your trying to institute a world wide Athieocracy thats completely unscientific.  How can Socialism be scientific when it assumes that matter is one sided?  Thats actually very unscientific for you guys to assume matter is one sided get a clue subtle energy is real.  There's been tests done to show that Chi Energy and other forms of subtle energy actually exist.  Beyond that individuals can remotely influence time and space haven't you ever heard of the butterfly effect?

Get with the program the new revolution of the ages is not gonna be a Marxist revolution and it isn't gonna be an Anarchist revolution either.  Our revolution the people's revolution will be a Dharmic Revolution that leads to that will create the Dharmic or transitional phase which is the stepping stone to The Enlightenned society that society will be followed by the Ascended Society and later the Transcended Society.  Why is it your philosphy only predicts two periods?  Socialism then Communism? 

Where as Promethean Philosphy predicts 4 periods that will follow Capitalism?  Wake up brothers and sisters free your mind and let the spirit of Indigo revolution take hold.  First it is Prometheus then it is Remus then Sparticus and then it is you let Remus be awakenned in you!  The New Aeon is dawning will you let it be a Dark Aeon or an Aeon of Light?

www.myspace.com/prometheanworker

www.thenewaeon.org

-The conquering and risen Remus the one who will destroy the spirit of Romulus that holds you hostage...

[caesarscook]

Beyond that individuals can remotely influence time and space haven't you ever heard of the butterfly effect?

Ha!  You can't be serious.  Ok, first of all, the butterfly effect refers to material processes, which runs counter to the whole point you are trying to make.  The butterfly effect, as understood in science, does not say that thinking about remote non-physical effects can cause them to occur (telekinesis) or any other such silliness.  I mean, seriously, what you are trying to read into this theory would get you laughed out of any serious scientific discussion.

This bizarre rant about "two-sided" matter is absurd.  There is absolutely ZERO credible scientific evidence to corroborate your so-called "subtle energy" or your "two-sided" matter (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean).  Perhaps the most interesting few lines in your entire spaced-out post is this bit about a four-stage future for the human race, and none of your writings seem to supply any analysis that would lead one to this conclusion logically, a basic requirement for taking what you're saying seriously as "science."  Marxist theory, on the other hand, begins with a concrete analysis of the way that things are, analyzes the parts in relation to the whole and allows us to draw our analysis from these processes in motion, not the inner-workings of some fantasy land.

Wake up brothers and sisters free your mind and let the spirit of Indigo revolution take hold.  First it is Prometheus then it is Remus then Sparticus and then it is you let Remus be awakenned in you!  The New Aeon is dawning will you let it be a Dark Aeon or an Aeon of Light

Huh?  Yeah, have fun with that.  To think that there is actually a sect out there that draws its theory from a mish-mash of D&D, Ancient Roman and Greek mythology, and bad comic books.  Oh, and if you are going to name one of your mythical historical stages after a great slave rebellion leader, you should at least spell his name properly:  Spartacus.  Really, I almost feel like apologizing to the board as a whole for wasting space replying to this foolishness.  Comrades, please accept my deepest apologies.

[jesuschristdotcom]

Our revolution the people's revolution will be a Dharmic Revolution that leads to that will create the Dharmic or transitional phase which is the stepping stone to The Enlightenned society that society will be followed by the Ascended Society and later the Transcended Society. 

I understand all of these words.  just not in this order.

[RedVanguard9]

Do you guys seriously believe this clown http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/DarkestShinobi?v=info&ref=profile is gonna lead the revolution or somethng?   He looks like he just fell out of some really bad low budget kung fu movie seriously WTF!  Further all this Metaphysical stuff you guys blab on about is just a bunch of imaginary stuff as if were supposed to believe your leader is some sort of Psychic.  Its been proven time and again that all these psychics are frauds especially people who cliam they can talk to the dead bunch of charlattans.