United States

[Archer]

According to the name of this sub-forum, there is only a leftist movement in the UK. I believe that all movements meant to benefit the whole world should take place everywhere possible! In other words, it should be an international movement!

I'm not entirely sure of how things are going over in europe, though I've heard that some progress is being made here and there. Good, but I'm not one to settle for progress "here and there," and you shouldn't be either.

We need a new approach. All we're doing is being hammered by propoganda everywhere from history class to the media. If we ever plan to get anywhere, we have to overcome this! Our first and primary goal right now should be getting the public to realize we're the good guys, not that the Capitalists are bad guys like we've been doing. If we keep just saying they're bad, we're going to stay as publicly despised as we are. We need to be charitable, get noticed by the media for doing good things.

Also, a new symbol is needed. The hammer and sickle make people feel an emotion similar to fear now, and that's a very bad thing! The same thing goes for clenched, raised fists. We need to promote ourselves as helpful, not a force to be feared.

Something we really need is a new champion of the working class. I would love to try to fill this role, but I'm young, so I'll have to do it in a few years. We need to get one of our own into the eye of the public so that they know we're here. I mean, right now, most Americans are planning on voting for what they call the "lesser of two evils," so if we had a Gandhi-esque person rise up and say, "Look! There is a positive alternative!" then we'd be doing pretty well. Heck, even a radio talk-show host might do (just anything to counter Rush Limbaugh).

No more of this hitting the streets stuff. If I were a common, mislead American, I sure wouldn't be convinced of anything by an angry man, let alone an angry mob. Smiling posters and smiling people offering smiling hand-outs are the way to go for now, just to keep the whole positive visage going. For the umpteenth time, we need to be fun, cheery, happy people. Plus, people can find faults with strikes but nothings really wrong with sweet old Mr. John Doe handing out pretty leaflets and hot-dogs.

We have lots of websites on our side, but really. Whoop-de-do. I have yet to find I site of ours with a simple guide on how to convince other people to join the cause. All the sites require people to come to the site itself to be convinced. Teach us how to convince others! Don't make us just be middle-men!

Long story short, here are some of my suggestions to everybody on how to get this motion going:

1) Get outside the box and go international.
2) Donate money and offer jobs to the poor and jobless, provide the homeless with homes, etc. just so people know we're good.
3) Ditch the hammer and sickle, the clenced fist of riots, etc. and come up with a very positive symbol, like a dolphin.
4) Make one of our leaders famous via the media.
5) Less angry mob, more smiling hand-out kart.
6) Give us an easy, simple guide to convincing others to join the cause!

I think we all know that this six-step plan is an excellent way to bring back the leftist spirit to America, the UK, and wherever else it is applied! Let me here your thoughts though because everything can be improved!

[Daymare17]

Hello and welcome to the board Archer!

Originally posted by Archer
1) Get outside the box and go international.

Our tendency is already international! The CMI has groups in many places, including Spain, Latin America, Nigeria and many European countries. In Pakistan we are becoming a mass force. I would keep a close look on Pakistan in the near future, as both the objective (economic) and subjective (a revolutionary party) factors are favourable for a revolution.

2) Donate money and offer jobs to the poor and jobless, provide the homeless with homes, etc. just so people know we're good.

Excuse me? Do you have many homes or jobs to give away in charity? I don't suppose so, only cappies do. Do you think it would help the working class if a few dozen poor Marxists started giving away their stuff? Even if the Marxist tendency had any success using this tactic (which it won't!) then all you would be doing would be to give the working class an illusion that their misery can be solved through charity (which it can't). Charity presupposes acceptance of the class society. That's why it is so popular with bourgeois feeling guilty, with the Church and so on. Do you think the Church would support charity if it could ever help the working class? What Marxists must do is to help the working class organise itself, make it conscious of its mission, and make sure that it knows that it can trust only itself.

3) Ditch the hammer and sickle, the clenced fist of riots, etc. and come up with a very positive symbol, like a dolphin.

The hammer and sickle represents Communism, the workers' state and the world working class. We must not be taken aback by the Stalinist distortions and bow down to the bourgeois demands. On the other hand we must rehabilitate these symbols so that they once more come to represent something positive.

4) Make one of our leaders famous via the media.

Trying to get the media on our side is generally like trying to get the help of Beelzebub against Satan. The media is controlled by big capitalists. So why should they give positive coverage to people who want to eliminate capitalism?

5) Less angry mob, more smiling hand-out kart.

Only the angry mob can overthrow capitalism. If you want to save the world with a smiling hand-out kart then be my guest :P

6) Give us an easy, simple guide to convincing others to join the cause!

First of all, we must defend our basic Marxist programme with tooth and claw. If you recruit people on the basis of a watered-down programme, then these people will often betray you when you need them most! When the objective forces are unfavourable, then the worst thing you can do is to look for opportunist short cuts. We are revolutionary Marxists and we believe in the overthrow of the capitalist state and many other things that are unpleasant from the point of view of bourgeois public opinion. But we can't take away that, or any other essential thing, from our programme. Of course this doesn't mean that you can't dress up your basic ideas so that they get more acceptable in the present eyes of the workers (You don't go around shouting revolution, but you explain the Marxist ideas patiently to anyone willing to listen)

I think we all know that this six-step plan is an excellent way to bring back the leftist spirit to America, the UK, and wherever else it is applied! Let me here your thoughts though because everything can be improved!

The leftist spirit is already waking up everywhere despite what we do. We must never sacrifice parts of our programme to get a bigger following - that is opportunism. We can't recruit any more people than the objective factors allow for. Today the objective factors are rapidly going our way. It is like the cappies are walking in the desert, and they meet a tiger (the working class), and they walk up to it and bitch slap it.

Comradely,
Rune

[Daymare17]

BTW, have you read Reason In Revolt by Alan Woods and Ted Grant? It is a good book that exposes the capitalist decay very well. I believe that whoever picks up this book will be interested in learning more about Marxism. You can read it online at http://www.marxist.com/rircontents.asp or order it from http://www.marxist/com/wellred. You could show it to your friends.

[Archer]

Thank you, Daymare. It's always nice to get a warm welcome!

However, now I must defend my points. Unfortunately, I'm not quite sure of how to use the "quote" feature, so pardon my if my response isn't quite as legible as yours.

We're not international enough, and I will never consider our voice loud enough until I can ask other, randomly selected people in my community if they've heard of YFIS or CMI. For example, the only reason I know about YFIS is because I believe there was a link from the generic http://www.communism.com, or something like that. The majority of the people -- and as such, the majority of the working class -- either doesn't have the motivation or the time to study websites like this one or those other sites that are related.

For example, have you ever been to http://www.gop.com? Why not? Is it because you never felt the need or desire to go there? That's exactly what I'm talking about. The movement you speak of is only appearing sporadically in countries that either have less propoganda or house the old hard-liners. That's not good enough for me, like I said, and I don't know why you think that we're on the road to success when the "power countries" are only drifting faster and faster to the right.

Which brings us back to where I said that the left was losing its spirit. Again, consider the United States, only this time, compare and contrast twenty years ago versus now. The Democratic Party of today is getting even more spineless and have become exactly what  moderate Republicans of yesterday used to be, while the hard-ball Republicans of yesterday have evolved to become the common Republican of today. Don't believe me? Check the statistics yourself! Liberalism is going down while the Conservatives are becoming more and more common (and they are already the majority of Americans, hence the general feelings against gay marriage, etc.).

And that isn't even counting us "radicals!" Yes, the left has certainly lost its spark, and a big part of that is because there is no "champion of the working class." The media isn't as against us as you think. Yes, that field is dominated by Capitalists, but so is every other field equally, and if you don't think you can get a smile from the media, you should also give up trying to get a smile from the plumbers, the factory workers, or anybody else pretty much. My father works in the media, for example, so I would know that the media doesn't really put the shush on anything. The only thing they want to do is put out stories that people want to hear and remember because that's where the money is. Of course, government sponsored media outlets -- like the Military Times or whatever it's called -- are littered with propoganda, but it's not all that common in the big, global news agencies like NBC, the only exception possibly being the BBC stations. Granted, there is some propoganda to be found everywhere, but again, that's why it doesn't make a difference when you really think about it.

The next question you must ask when observing my logic is, "How can you produce a doll for the media?" It isn't that hard (even criminals do it all the time). Being nice and giving really big presents and equally big smiles to the community are good ways. One big goal of the "give homeless people homes and jobless people jobs" deal is to do just that. I dare you to come up with a way to put a bad spin on that, since I know your very cynical of the media. That's how you can get noticed. Give really, *really* friendly speeches while you do that and presto! you're on the radar. Maybe make a speech next door to where Bush or Kerry are yapping if you want to get agressive, but don't push it. The point of all the "charity" is to get on the radar as nice folk with a nice dream.

And see, that's why I'm a left-leaning independant. I do not believe that the only way to get a better world is through violence. If you really believe that, then perhaps you and war-mongering President Bush have more in common than you think! Afterall, he is "liberating" Iraq, isn't he? And don't you want to "liberate" Latin America the same way? Sure, you wouldn't be taking the oil and all that other nasty stuff, but the core ideas are the same. "Let's make their land, their culture, their beliefs, heck, their entire lives better by killing everybody who disagress." Same old story. I urge you to re-evaluate your position. Are you a solider, a pawn? Or are you a politican, philosopher, peace-maker? In my book, war has no place in Utopia. Give peace a shot.

Of course we need to be taught of how to convince others of things! Defending your beliefs is all good and well, but that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Nobody said we'd become "weak-sauce" material to get others to join us. Remember in grade-school that "how to write an argument-essay" class? That's the stuff I'm talking about because the goal of the "argument-essay" wasn't just survival, which isn't enough for me and shouldn't be enough for you; the goal was convincing others that your outlook was better so that they would join you, not hammering and sickleing away at them until they decide they don't want to talk to you anymore. The difference, in short, between what you and I are talking about is that you say, "We are right, you are wrong!" and I say, "We are right, and here is why..." See what I'm getting at?

I think that's everything. Oh, yeah. The hammer and sickle aren't good enough to be the symbols of the working class because they have become a symbol of fear, not hope. Remember that the hammer and sickle are one of the first things people see when they research communism. First impressions are big. Go buy another copy of the Communist Manifesto and replace all the hammers and sickles with a heart or a smiley face. Changes it a lot, doesn't it? See the difference? This has a lot to do with psychology and propoganda.

And there you go. Thank you for your comment, by the way, and I look forward to hearing from you again!

[P.O.U.M]

Hello Archer, always nice to see more people from the U.S. concerned about the world.

We're not international enough

Oh were plenty international enough. There are new organizations creating plenty new internationals. Check out http://www.broadleft.org There are plenty of organizations under many banners to bring the world forward.

For example, have you ever been to http://www.gop.com?

Actually Ive been there on numerous occastions. Dont be jumping to conclusions so quickly.

Conservatives are becoming more and more common (and they are already the majority of Americans, hence the general feelings against gay marriage, etc.).

I would say there are more people coming to the Left these days. Just as you said, "the democrats are becoming more spinless." Lots of people like the leadership of the Republicans but dont always agree with all thier positions. I know many people that would vote for a Republican just because Democrays have no leadership and put forth some wastefull programs even though they agree with gay marriage and abortions. Its our leaders fearing this new change which is dragging the country down. Though the constitutional amendent to make gay marriage illegal didnt pass.

The media isn't as against us as you think. Yes, that field is dominated by Capitalists

Hold on now, the media is very much so agaisnt us. How do you think we have a bad rap to begin with. Not just Stalin. Socialists have had a bad rap since the beginning from the media. It hasnt changed at all today. Even in our American history books all refernce to socialists are nearly a complete lie. And if its not a total lie its completly distorted from the truth. And there are about 6 companies owning all the media in the U.S. There arent going to be playing anything that gives the a bad rap. Not to mention the American media is all about ratings. Well only for the news at 10 networks. They show nothing but police chases and gang shootings. The other news coverage, the like of MSNBC and FOXNEWS and such have people that tell nothing but flagarant lies about people and current situations. One of these networks brought on an "expert" to bash on Michael Moore's film "Bowling for Columbine." What they forgot to mention was that he was from the NRA!!!

Perhaps giving things away will get us attention. But we will need to give lots away to get attention. I dont know if any organizations has the funds to do this. Its expensive enough running a political party. You have to pay the full timers, making a zine, printing phamplets, and more. Especially when the people from the organization have to pay everything for themselves. Its the people who are in that pay...and these arent people who can give a thousand dollars away.

If you really believe that, then perhaps you and war-mongering President Bush have more in common than you think!

No war but the class war is hardly war-mongering. Every war has intrest for those conducting the war. War in Iraq, the bourgeoisie are profiting of this. Its a war for profit, and this ignoring of the U.N. and the shunning of the French are showing that Capitalism is nearing its time. The Bush Administration went all out in this war to make a profit.

If the working class were to conduct a war this war would benefit them. We would advocate a peaceful revolution, but to not be prepared for the worest is to be unprepared and is just silly. If the working class were ever to take the helm of running a country there will be reaction for those who formerly had. Not to mention there might even be foreign intervention from other bourgeois countries who do not want the same to happen to them. This happened in Russia and would happen again were the working class to win power.

"Let's make their land, their culture, their beliefs, heck, their entire lives better by killing everybody who disagress." Same old story. I urge you to re-evaluate your position. Are you a solider, a pawn? Or are you a politican, philosopher, peace-maker? In my book, war has no place in Utopia. Give peace a shot.

Its not a simple killing of everyone who disagrees, though it would make things easier:D The point of the state in socialism is prevent the old order from reappearing. Killing may be involved, especially come revolution. But it cant be prevented, do you expect those who have to just surrender all they have had? Or would they fight back to keep their positions? This has happend many a times before during popular revolutions, many times.

Also, I dont think anyone hear would claim Communism is utopian. It sure as hell would be alot better than things now but its not going to be a utopia. Socialism is a stage between communism and capitalism, and socialism still has old elements from capitalism while entering new aspects into society such as the ridding of private property.

the goal was convincing others that your outlook was better so that they would join you, not hammering and sickleing away at them until they decide they don't want to talk to you anymore. The difference, in short, between what you and I are talking about is that you say, "We are right, you are wrong!" and I say, "We are right, and here is why..." See what I'm getting at?

Have you ever tried to argue communism with the "typical" american. It is not an easy thing. We put forward why they are wrong all the time. We explain to them there beliefs are silly. Though i dont say there silly. Many comrades from the U.S. also face similar problems when debating about communism. Its not "hey your wrong," we dont do that. We explain to them their wrongness. Just many times people dont listen...especially young republicans.

I think that's everything. Oh, yeah. The hammer and sickle aren't good enough to be the symbols of the working class because they have become a symbol of fear, not hope. Remember that the hammer and sickle are one of the first things people see when they research communism. First impressions are big. Go buy another copy of the Communist Manifesto and replace all the hammers and sickles with a heart or a smiley face

Personally i like the hammer and sickle...looks cool. Shows a unity between peasants and workers. Shows power and strength. I would not join a revolutionary party that has a smiley face or a dolphin as a symbol. That is just plain silly. The raised clench fists shows unity and power through strength. Seperate the fingers are nothing but clenched they show unity and strength. Plus, once people come to realize communism and what it is they will not have a problem. Im sure the symbol might attract some people but not everyone will be attracted to check something out because there symbol is a smiley face...

The movement you speak of is only appearing sporadically in countries that either have less propoganda or house the old hard-liners. That's not good enough for me, like I said, and I don't know why you think that we're on the road to success when the "power countries" are only drifting faster and faster to the right.

Movements happen in third world countris happen because things are the worst of there and people start demanding change. The power countries are drifting to the right for a reason. Capitalism is nearing its end. And to prevent this the leaders are trying to push more and more to the right to help stop this. Which in turn will make things more repressive and thats when people starting revolting.

My father works in the media, for example, so I would know that the media doesn't really put the shush on anything.

Wathc Bill O'Rielly, he puts the spin on everything...i mean everything. Him and all the other newsman as such. Plus the media also leaves out important questions that need to be asked. Like wheres the WMD. Took the media hell of along time to jump on that band wagon. I think it was Bill O'Rielly that said he was absolutly positive that Iraq had WMD's in hiding and that if they were never found he would never trust the Bush Administration again. Has he lived up to this? NO! If you like I could post some of his errors and mistruths if you like.

[Archer]

It is nice to see another American who cares about the world. Couldn't have said it better.

However, this is a good case of why I'm a far-left-leaing independant and not a textbook Marxist anymore, or any other type of Socialist for the matter. Or Communist. Your statements have contradictions.

You define Socialism as a transition period between Capitalism and Communism, yet you want to focus your effort on third-world countries who aren't yet even Capitalist. That's what happened with the Soviet Union, man, and look where that went.

Your whole paragraph on why you think the spirit of the left is coming back is about how everybody is going Republican. Ponder that.

Have I ever tried to argue Communism with the typical american? Yes. Do I know it's really, really hard? Yes. Is this actually the reason why I think this site should offer a guide on debating the leftist views? Yes.

There you go again, saying how you don't want to kill unless you have to, how you know you have to so you know you will, and how you know that certain people will disagree so you'll just kill them. It sounds to me like you're leaning towards a the classic violent, totalitarian uprising. Like I said, so what if they disagree? That's no reason to kill them! Of course, self-defense is fine, but everybody here seems to think self-defense means attacking others before they attack you, whether they really will or won't. You all say to go read this web-site or that web-site. Fine. You all should reak M.K. Gandhi's autobiography then. Kapeesh? War will always be nothing more than war. "Darkness cannot get rid of darkness; only light can." War will not end war; only peace can.

So you think the symbol works because it looks cool. Let me guess. You like it because it's a symbol of power, and that by associating yourself with it, it becomes a symbol of your power. Wrong. It's a symbol that strikes fear into people! What it actually stands for matters much less than how the average man interperits it! I want you to picture a needle being put in an open eye with lots of blood in the background. That's my new symbol for love, doesn't it work well? No? My point exactly. You think it shows unity, the hammer and sickle? Hammers have become icons of raw strength while sickles have become the very symbols of horror movies everywhere! Same goes for fist and what not. And if the symbol doesn't really matter to you, then why wouldn't you join a party just because they have a dolphin as a symbol?

I don't get to watch all that much television, so don't be surprised that I haven't heard of Bill O'Rielly. That, and I'm relatively young. Actually, I think I might've but I don't really know who it is even if the name is familiar. So what? TV has always had its share of loud mouths, but nobody really cares about them. What really matters is the 6:00 news (and at other times) and Tom Brokaw. Really. And did you really doubt that the media was going to talk about weapons of mass destruction? Come on! It's their nature to drag out everything as long as possible, so it only stands to reason that they'd hide it as an ace up their sleeve! As long as they stay rich, they don't care what goes on in Iraq, and right now, the media would actually profit from seeing Bush go down, not seeing him rise up again. Think about it.

I think that's all. Will the next person who posts please also tell me how to use the quote feature? Thank you so much!

And thanks again to you, P.O.U.M! You too, Daymare!

[P.O.U.M]

You define Socialism as a transition period between Capitalism and Communism, yet you want to focus your effort on third-world countries who aren't yet even Capitalist. That's what happened with the Soviet Union, man, and look where that went.

Yes, socialism is the transitional stage, and yes, the lack of capitalism was a conrtibuting factor to its downfall. I never said my focus was on third world countries, just some tend to get revolutionary due to their situation which is generally much, much worse than the common worker of an industrialized country.

Your whole paragraph on why you think the spirit of the left is coming back is about how everybody is going Republican. Ponder that.

Sorry, when I talk about the left i usally refer to the left as socialists. I dont really consider the likes of the democrates as the left, i could accept Green Party as left. And i was just explaining why people go to the Republican Party, they are not generally conservatives.

It sounds to me like you're leaning towards a the classic violent, totalitarian uprising. Like I said, so what if they disagree? That's no reason to kill them!

The part about killing people with the smiley face...that was a joke. Seriously though, how could you not expect reaction? Im not saying kill all dissenters. Im sure there will be plenty. But for those who activily resist the new workers government would have to be dealt with, this does not require killing though. Plus, I think many people on this board have a rather bad outlook on Gandhi. I think he was called a prick who got quite a few people killed.

As long as they stay rich, they don't care what goes on in Iraq, and right now, the media would actually profit from seeing Bush go down, not seeing him rise up again. Think about it.

How would the media profit from seeing Bush go down...because, well, the media has had the oppertunity to see Bush go down since the very beginning talk of the war. They have had the oppertunity to drag Bush down before he was sworn into office. The elections in Florida were rigged. Through good investigative reporting from Greg Palast who was able to discover that Geb Bush and the secratary of the state of florida had rigged the election by making sure that many democratic voters were denied the oppertunity to vote. These were people numbering at least, i think it was 100,000. Where was the media to see his downfall then? Mr. Palast also tried numerous times to get his investigation in the U.S. media but he was sort of shunned. He was able to get to the BBC though.

Oh and to use the qoute feature you have to click on the link post reply, cant use the quick reply. Then above the box where you type your text there are some buttons, one should say qoute. A box will appear, you can copy and past the qoute into the box and then it will insert the qoute into your reply.

[P.O.U.M]

By the way, why is there only a YFIS UK section? Isnt there a YFIS here in the states?

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

Yes, that's actually where it started.

http://www.newyouth.com

[mir]

Archer, your thoughts on war are totally free from all dialectic thought.  You even have the nerve to compare a communist army liberating Latin America with bush liberating Iraq.  First, you must realize that all wars are not bad and the idea to ban wars is nothing but utopian.  You get rid of the reasons for war, not war itself.  And sadly, that is impossible under capitalism.  Next, communists do not advocate actually invading another country by one that is already socialist.  We have seen that forced revolutions by the Red Army in most of E. Europe have failed.  Armies cannot make revolutions, only workers can.  Yet, if the workers rebel in a country, it is the right of the other socialist countries to intervene on the part of the workers.  This is actually a good thing since it creates LESS bloodshed.  Lastly, why do you think that communists want to change other people's beliefs and ideas?  I think you're very much affected by the rightist propoganda so evident in USA.

Oh and by the way, the site voted overwhelmingly that Ghandi was a "prick" and we don't want anything from him.  Try to find the thread about him and please read it and clear your false illusions about him.

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

The thread on Ghandi can be found here http://discussion.newyouth.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=698

[Archer]

Thanks for showing up, Mir and T.K.A. Denmark!

If you think that because you and a few others can sway me by having a poll, then now is the time to remind you that I am not a conformist. I will not conform to your beliefs just because you can present another side of a coin. I believe Gandhi was a great man. England's choice to slaughter India was England's choice, not Gandhi's, as you seem to state as fact. But we're not debating Gandhi; that's your thread.

My thoughts are free of dialectic thought, you say? Yes, it is! The keyword being "free." You have to remember that I am an "independant leftist" instead of a full-blown Communist or Socialist, and this is one of the reasons why. I am an open mind, and just because many points of dialectical thought are good doesn't mean I'm going to praise the bad parts as well.

I do have the "nerve" to compare things. Very true. And thank goodness I have the nerve, and thank goodness I'm not the only one with a spine in this world! Western Capitalism's *method* of "liberating" Iraq is just the same as Eastern Communism's method. But you don't believe me.

A) America liberates Iraq.
B) China liberates Tibet.
C) Soviet Union liberates Afghanistan.

The key word is "liberate." I don't care who's doing the liberating, but the definition doesn't change, and so far, the real definition has always been nothing but war! If Communism liberates Country X by killing people, that's how it is. If Capitalism liberates Country Y by killing people, that's how it is. Killing people is killing people, whether you or Bush does it. There's nothing circumstantial about it as far as I'm concerened. But that's where we disagree, no?

No, I probably can't "ban wars." You're absolutely right. I also can't stop babies from dying, children from getting raped, or school shootings. Does that make them okay then? Absolutely not. Wars are never good. Maybe necessary, but never good.

I am not affected by rightist propoganda and I actually do find it insulting that you would say that with so little evidence. My opinions are different for yours and if you want to call me things that you know you wouldn't like to be called because of that, then I believe that's a bad show of character on your part and I would greatly appreciate it if you took that back this instant. I have not stated my politics other than a fast definition as "independant leftist." You have no idea where I stand on every issue in particular. You have no idea what parties a favor and despise. You have no idea about my views of economics other than that I'm left-leaning, which could mean billions of things. All you know is really is that I don't like the hammer and sickle even though I like what it stands for, that I view Gandhi positively, and that I'm a minimum violence kind of guy. So yes, I find it extremely personally insulting that you could say such a thing with so little information about me and again, I would very much like it if you took that back.

And all of that was COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC by the way. Let me remind you that this entire thread is supposed to be about how to get the movement going in the United States. NOT my views on the war in Iraq, NOT my views on war itself, NOT my views on just about anything you've all brought up.

Perhaps this is the problem with the leftists today; you can't sit still and talk about the issues at hand. Instead, you have to bash each other when ever the slightest difference is found.

Let's change that as of now in this thread and only talk about ideas on how to better promote the left! Nothing else!

Thanks for coming, everybody. It's nice to see some well-mannered debators in the world. Very refreshing.

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

I believe Gandhi was a great man. England's choice to slaughter India was England's choice, not Gandhi's, as you seem to state as fact. But we're not debating Gandhi; that's your thread.

Ghandi helped them, he belived in private property and in capitalism.
How much proff do you need?
Did you know there was a strong communist movement in India which Ghandi fought against and did you know Ghandi was one of the people responsible for the partition of the subcontinent which lead to ethnic clashes. I know some people have a tendency to close their eyes for reality if they don't like it but this is absurd.
You support an anti-communist and a servant of imperialism.

[P.O.U.M]

Let's change that as of now in this thread and only talk about ideas on how to better promote the left! Nothing else!

Many threads become off subject when different ideas are brought in.

Im sure most communist parties have transitional demands for their respective country they are in. Here is WIL's (YFIS is WIL's youth league) http://www.socialistappeal.org/program.html.

[Archer]

Not all Capitalists are evil demons out to steal your underwear. You can't just generalize like that. Sure, they're mostly just a bunch of greedy or mislead pigs, but that alone doesn't make them horrible people.

And for the billionth time, will you all stop making personal attacks!? I am NOT an anti-communit and I am NOT a servant of imperialism and YOU have NO proof that I am, and I know this because I haven't even TOLD you my world views or anything yet, so STOP making hasty assumptions based just because we disagree! Please take it back.

And stop arguing about Gandhi! There's a different thread for that! YOUR thread!