Porn actors' rights

[Daymare17]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=ourWorldNews&storyID=5287327&pageNumber=0

An insight into the movement of some of the most exploited workers.

But the biggest scare to hit the porn industry in years has brought to the forefront a debate about whether the industry ought to adopt a mandatory condom policy. While the use of condoms has become accepted and encouraged in the segment of the industry that produces gay porn, the conventional wisdom in the straight porn industry is that condom use translates into lost sales.

"It's a "marketing decision," said Hustler empire founder Larry Flynt, whose production company churns out hundreds of adult videos a year. "The majority of people who buy these films do not want to see a condom."

...But, porn star "Savanna Samson" who will only confide that her real first name is Natalie and her age is "roughly 30," thinks this time the industry is in for a sea change. "Most of the people I know are going to start insisting on using condoms," said Samson, who has appeared in 16 adult videos. "It's your life you're talking about. I think now it's a huge eye-opener."

..."Screening alone is insufficient to protect these performers," according to Dr. Jonathan Fielding, director of public health for Los Angeles County.

"Sex needs to be protected sex. In all other industries, worker protection is important. You don't go to a construction site and find workers not wearing hard hats," he said.

[klynn44]

I used a smiliar article for a report in my health class.
I think the teacher was a little less than pleased with it.
Which is dumb.
Prudish Americans.

Anyway, regarding the article, I think all actors involved in an adult film should wear condoms unless all agree that they don't want to.
I mean, if sales suffer, I don't think it will be a very big blow to the industry.
People who like porn are going to continue to buy/rent porn, regardless of condoms being involved.
And then there's the whole "saving lives" factor.

[turnoviseous]

I guess this is really the problem of capitalism, owners dont allow acters to wear condoms, because it is bad for business....

One deeper question tho´, what about under socialism, would we keep the prono industry (with condoms :D) or would it be abolished?

[mir]

Why should we keep it?  What possible good do porn movies do to society, and what do porn stars contribute to overall wealth?

[turnoviseous]

I dont know, maybe education of a sort, but there are a lot archived movies, for education, so there would proly be no need to make new ones. :D

[Daymare17]

It is entertainment, and people want it so it will be produced.

[Monster]

Well... education? Girls getting their throats stuffed apparently against their will? Doesn't really seem like proper education to me... (I know you don't mean any harm Luka)

The only positive side-effect about porn would be that some (almost only men) get to blow their steam off at home, and not go out and hurt anybody. The same argument would go for prostitutes, so that men wouldn't go out and rape anybody if they can't get any sex, but go pay for it instead. Not that this ensures any "polite" treatment of the prostitutes at all.

I don't like the fact that women in the porn industry, or prostitutes, get abused. But I'm not too sure what would be the solution if they weren't there...

The picture of a "voluntary service" of women who'd like to help out poor men in dire need, simply doesn't make any sense either.

[mir]

Daymare, but are all forms of entertainment good for society?  

What monster is saying at least makes a little sense, but the education and entertainment arguements are not at all good arguements for.

[candida]

Porn is not educational. The current mainstream porn does not portray sexuality accuretely. I think the only acceptable porn is (and would be after the revolution) is the kind that does not portray women as something just to be fucked, but instead woud show women as active participants in the act too, doing things they would enjoy, not what looks good on film. Watching porn does not stop anyone raping people. In fact, at the homes of  most serial rapists and serial murderes the police, during investigations, finds hardcore porn...

Oh, and I pity the women who are stuck with men who have gotten their only sex education, and the knowledge of what women enjoy, from porn...

[Daymare17]

Only one whose mind is full of murderously reactionary petty bourgeois ideas, can oppose porn on moral or "socialist" grounds. It is of the same type as the Nazi and Stalinist attacks against priceless works of art on grounds of "rootless cosmopolitanism" and "bourgeois decadence", i.e. it throws out the baby with the bathwater and mistakes the bourgeois perversion for the pure thing.

The misguided Taaffe group in Sweden goes on rampages in the cities against porno clubs and shuts them down, on the grounds that the sex workers are exploited. In reality it is a reactionary moralist campaign. All they achieve is that the sex workers lose their jobs. They are inadvertently anti working class. So is anyone who goes against porn on moral grounds, like mir.

Of course the porn workers under socialism will not be abused or exploited. Anyone who says this has no idea what socialism is. What the socialist revolution does is precisely to make exploitation impossible. There will be total social security and free necessities of life so nobody will be forced to be a porn actor against their will. There will also be sexual equality, so no abuse of women unless they consent (and there's no question of the present capitalist "consent" coming into play since need has been eliminated).

Mir, I must say you have a very dangerous Stalinist mentality when you talk about abolishing porn as if it was a question of "us" illegalising it by decree. Have you ever considered that the workers might want to make porn, and watch it? That porn can also be, or be part of, very good art? Perhaps "we" should illegalise painting too? Or computer games? What do you say?

Comradely,
Rune

[Frederik]

I don't know exactly what to think of pornography, but I think we can all agree that it serves no educational role (or shouldn't...)

Daymare said that it is entertainment. That is probably closer to the truth.

If pornography is an expression of the cultural level of capitalism, I think it shows quite well how degenerate it is.

But I don't think that we should argue that it ought to be banned.

I must admit that it is a subject that I haven't thougt very much about, but I recall a quote from John Lennon:
"They keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
 - So you think you are so clever and classless and free"

[candida]

" There will also be sexual equality, so no abuse of women unless they consent."

So if the woman says it's ok you don't see anything wrong in abusing women??? And there is nothing wrong with the person who wants to do this? I mean be abbused or the abbuser.

And i'm not saying there should be some kind of regulations against all porn. But just like child porn is not tolerated, the same should go for porn that make women look like most of the mainstream harcore porn makes them look now. I don't think this porn issue is just a socialist issue created by capitalism. It's also and, even more, a feminist issue. And although I am sure communism would improve equality between sexes, it is not some kind of magic wand that takes all the bad away from the world. Most of the bad yes, not all...

There is a difference in being against porn and being against porn that dimeans women. I'm all for the first kind of erotica and people expressing their sexuality. More naked people yes! :D

[Daymare17]

Originally posted by candida
So if the woman says it's ok you don't see anything wrong in abusing women??? And there is nothing wrong with the person who wants to do this? I mean be abbused or the abbuser.

The answer to this was in the next sentence. I said:

(and there's no question of the present capitalist "consent" coming into play since need has been eliminated)

The only way it could happen under socialism is if some woman is a masochist-exhibitionist. It's up to workers public opinion to decide whether that should be banned from public view. Personally I don't think so, any more than games like GTA should be banned.

[Monster]

One of the arguments stated by bourgeois people would normally be that "they have chosen to be prostitutes and porn-actors themselves, no-one forced them". This argument is, as I suppose we're all able to agree on, not of any value at all. The sex-industry is a way of earning money, which I suppose is the only thing that attracts the women(and men, and trannys and ...) to the industry.
Under a socialist society, this wouldn't be the case. They wouldn't have to choose this opportunity, or sell their children for that matter too. The women (and men, and trannys and...) would only pick this option out of many, if that's what they really wanted to do. And on their terms. Condoms, regular checks for diseases and all that. Plus pensions of course (which I've heard is one of the typical flaws of this industry, once they get old, they're fired). This would of course mean that the industry would almost diminish, but so be it. We shouldn't be moralic and close it, neither should we try to uphold it against somebodys will. This is an industry the society doesn't "need", like bread and water. This is somewhat under the category of "luxury", and will only be there if somebody of their own absolutely free will decides to do so. The present actors should be given the opportunity to get free education and other jobs.

Btw, I'm in for the slogan of "More naked people!" go for it;)

[mir]

Only one whose mind is full of murderously reactionary petty bourgeois ideas, can oppose porn on moral or "socialist" grounds.

Please, tell me a reason for keeping porn.  The education point is totally bullshit.  Have you even watched a porn movie?  I have and I can tell you I didn't learn anything.  It serves as entertainment, true, but again, not all forms of entertainment are good and just like porn, what's good about it?

They are inadvertently anti working class.

Not all workers are workers who work in good industries.  Some industries will undoubtedly be abolished or wither away by themselves.  Keep that in mind.

Mir, I must say you have a very dangerous Stalinist mentality when you talk about abolishing porn as if it was a question of "us" illegalising it by decree.

What's the point of making a law if you're not going to carry it out?  If you illegalise it and severely punish the criminals, then you abolish it.

That porn can also be, or be part of, very good art?

I'm not going to comment against this except that the lines of porn and art are not very unclear.  The only good art is propaganda.

Perhaps "we" should illegalise painting too? Or computer games? What do you say?

I don't see what porn has to do with painting and computer games.