Market socialism

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

Sorry but I really don't understand the last post.
Maybe it's just my english, but i really can't make out what it's about.

[mir]

I believe it's about something to the effect that Marxism cannot be won in revolutions but reforms??!!!

[Andi]

I resent that TKA Denmark.

What I was getting AT was that reforms, changes and alterations to marxian theory are not evil capitalist manipulations but apadpations of an ever changin world.

With me? Feel free to comment?

My point about the free market -  I was advocating the free flow of "material" (as marx put it) i.e. money, developing countires are effectively muscled out of the developed market by debts, an endless price levy on their products, money, etc.

The free flow of people, human resources, i.e. being free to move whenever and wherever you wish. Something that is virtually impossible within the organised capitalism.

finite

PS. Gini - I was refering the the references made by other users abut the economic maths, the gini coefficient. These only register simply statistics and not the impacts on humans. e.g. a small number of rich people in one country render the statistics on mean wealth irrelevant, or gross domestic product that does not examine the variety of the economy of one country e.g. heavy manufacture, or a mixture etc etc

[mir]

First, I don't believe that a Marxist revolution can be achieved through reforms and votes.  I doubt that the ballot is stronger then the bullet as we have seen in Chile, Zaire, and Grenada, all of those countries elected socialist presidents and all them were killed.  I don't know, but the "free flow" of material across borders seems a little too Laizes-faire for me.  The best way for countries in developing countries to develop is to trade among themselves, not the west.  If everything moved freely across borders, then capitalists could open a raw materials factory somewhere in Africa, and pay them the bare minimum, assemble it in Mexico, and pay them the bare minimum, and sell it in the United States or Great Britain for quality prices when the wages paid for the production of the product are not even 1% of the final cost.

[T.K.A.-Denmark]

I resent that TKA Denmark

Why?
I just didn't get what you were saying.
Just try to remeber that not all of us has english as our first language.

[Andi]

i thought you were being sarcastic.

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Mir I wasn't suggesting a revolution can be achieved via votes and reforms but I was suggesting that reforms can help it along abit.

cumulative causation

[turnoviseous]

What I was getting AT was that reforms, changes and alterations to marxian theory are not evil capitalist manipulations but apadpations of an ever changin world.

Noone said that marxist theory must not change if there are faults found in it or that it must not supplemented, but there must be arguments and practical experience put forward and studied. As discussion with antieverything has shown so far, market socialism is not really different from capitalism in last analysis.